emergeny - Minder/C-bus comms lost

[bluey]

Hi all

I have a problem, I have the 'comms FAILED' message on my 5207 keypad. In addition, i can't connect to c-bus or minder to try and fix the problem. This appears to be the result of the storms we experienced in Sydney on Friday night. My emergency is that we have some garden lights on that we can only control through the keypad and we can't seem to turn them off. I can't stand the thought of having these lights going all night long. Can any one offer advice as to how I can reconnect to the minder computer through my PC so I can turn these lights off? I might add that if the mains is turned off, these lights are programmed to turn 'on'.

Thanks to anyone who thinks they can help out.

Craig.

[chrism]

The keypad comms may be that the keypad has lost it's address (this happens sometimes on a brief power failure). To change the address back to 01 (which is default), you will need to get into the keypad setup menu. Press the menu key and the '1' key at the same time. You will need to scroll down the list (using the down arrow key) until you find the keypad address. Press enter and then make sure the address is 01. Save this and exit the keypad setup menu.

As for not being able to communicate with the Minder... it may be a couple of things. Worse case is the RS232 chip is blown and then you could be in trouble (actually, the RS485 chip could be blown too and that may be the cause of your keypad comms failure... not too likely though). Assuming your comms chips as OK and you have your Minder program, you may need to completely power the system down (this includes backup battery and lithium battery (small battery on the PCB... need to remove it and short the terminals on the PCB for about 15 seconds). Then connect to the Minder.

A good way to see if your Minder chips are OK is to look at the trace window and see if you have any red traffic. if so (it may be all zeros or zeros and eights), then that's a good sign your comms chips are still intact.

Good luck... let us know how you go

Cheers

Chris

[bluey]

Chrism

Thanks for the response to my somewhat open description.

I have checked the keypad as per your instructions and the address is set to 01, so that's all good. I have opened Minder and after starting the project, there is only blue text in the trace window. I have also attempted to hang-up the controller and connect to c-bus with the below dialogue box appearing.

Any further suggestions?

It's not looking good at the moment. I'm also interested in what my options might be if it turns out my comms chips are damaged.

Thanks again for the help

Craig

[chrism]

do you have Minder software and your Minder ini file?

[bluey]

Yes I have HomeMinder software and the HomeMinder.ini file. Is there something specific I should be looking for?

[chrism]

Yes I have HomeMinder software and the HomeMinder.ini file. Is there something specific I should be looking for?
Yep. Does your (Minder) connection work? Do you get comms trace (I'm assuming you have some experience with this). You should see blue and red traffic in the comms trace...blue is a transmit from PC to controller, red is comms from controller to pc. This should help with diagnostics

Chris

[bluey]

Chrism

Apologies for the slow response, have had some computer issues. I am in the process of reinstalling homeminder software and will answer your questions ASAP.

cheers

Craig

[bluey]

Chrism

There is definately no red traffic in the trace window.

Once again I have tried connecting through C-Bus also, only to have the "No PC interface detected." dialogue pop up

[chrism]

Hmmm not good.

No red trace means no comms from the controller. Please make sure you have done a 'start project' (lightning bolt on the menu bar). Not looking good though if you have. It is looking like the RS232 chip may be knackered.

[bluey]

Thought it may be heading down that path. I will be contacting a somebody to come and have a look at soon.

Thanks for your help.

Craig

[bluey]

For anyone who might be interested, it was the comms chips on the board. I had the chips replaced and communications were re-eatablished and automation is now working fine.

Thanks again to Chrism for helping out.

I do have a new issue though, I now have Windows Vista and C-Bus has some sort of issue when attempting to display the template for Units. It will connect to the local network and displays all of the unit IDs correctly but when I wish to change unit settings by accessing the template, it will only display a "NEWUNIT" with all of the unit's settings different from the one I've selected.

Does anyone know if this is related to Vista?

Cheers

Craig

[chrism]

Hi Craig

I've not heard of this. To the best of my knowledge, Toolkit works ok with Vista. Try a post on the cbusforums.com The software engineers often monitor and respond.

Cheers

Chris

[Forumadmin]

Vista is 100% with toolkit.

[Mr Mark]

Vista is 100% with toolkit.

I thought the lack of USB drivers were responsible for the incompatibility? If this is still true, then the USB PC Interface; PAC; new monochrome touch screen; or IR transmitter programming lead still won't work.

There would be no reason you couldn't use an Ethernet interface though...

Mark

[bluey]

I am accessing c-bus through Minder via a serial PC interface. My c-bus is version 2.7.10, don't know if that affects what's already been said here. I have tried using toolkit, but it won't communicate. When I try to open a network, I get error message 23112 with the statement 'Port specified for Network is in use, cannot open Network.'

Any ideas?

[Sphinta]

I am only able to connect to the cbus network, through minder, using CBUS V2. New toolbox verision will not connect through minder. Anyone been able to get toolbox to work through minder?

Tim

[rhamer]

Nope, it doesn't work.

You need to get a C-Bus interface of some type (serial, ethernet,USB) if you want to use Toolkit.

Cheers

Rohan

[bluey]

Hi all.

I thought I'd post in the same place as the issue is similar to last time.

Problem:

'Start Project' in HomeMinder = Blue Trace only (see para below)
Attempt to access C-Bus and get the same 'network scan failed' message as described in earlier posting.

I'm trying to access Minder through Vista using C-Bus and HomeMinder in Virtual Machine. I've done this before (once a long time ago) with success, but now I'm getting the same blue trace only in HomeMinder. I've replaced the RS232 chips in the controller thinking that would fix it but sadly I still can't connect to make some scenario changes.

I can't remember the last time I needed to access Minder so I'm a bit lost.

Does anyone have any advice?

Any help would be appreciated.

[chrism]

First of all, you can't program C-Bus through Minder (using Toolkit). It was possible to program through the old V2 software.

BTW... did you do a 'start project'? If so (just making sure), then....

If you are connecting to Minder and are not seeing any red trace, there is no incoming data from the Minder Controller. Make sure you are using the correct com port (I know obvious but...). If you do see some red trace (lots of 0's and 8's) but you can't get good comms, you may need to completely kill the Minder. That is, disconnect the ac power, the backup battery and the lithium battery. You will also need to short the terminals of the lithium battery too. This will completely wipe the program. If there is a comms hardware problem (not a locked up controller), you will have a blank controller. Only do this if you see some red trace.

[bluey]

Thanks Chrism.

I'm not actually using Toolkit. I have HomeMinder and C-Bus V2 software and I've needed to install XP on a Virtual Machine to get it to work from my Vista PC. Previous to my last comms problem, I had an XP machine and used C-Bus and HomeMinder with few problems (apart from operator error!).

I have started a project also. That is usually how I begin in HomeMinder. There is definitely no red trace. This is the same problem I had 18 months ago and so that's what led me to buy a couple of new RS232 (DS1488 and DS1489) chips. I de-powered the controller board before replacing the chips in case you're wondering.

I'm not quite sure if I'm using the correct com port or not because I'm always getting this message that the PC interface isn't available. I have had a message in the past that the com port is unavailable so I figure that's when I haven't been using the correct port, but I always managed to sort that part of it out.

An additional problem I've noticed since my last post is that I'm getting gibberish on the LCD keypad. It's a mix of messages or non-descript characters.

This is looking a little dire. The home automation is running fine but the fact that I can't acces this system bothers me no end, and I wonder what the future holds for us (my wife and I) if we can't sort this sort of thing out.

BTW, I appreciate you assuming I might not have taken all the obvious steps. It's much easier if these things are spelt out at the beginning.

Thanks

[chrism]

We need to establish if you can get comms with Minder. Don't worry about C-Bus at this point. Connect your PC, fire up the minder software and do a 'start project'. If there is no red trace, then the Controller is not sending anything back to you.

You may need to re-start the controller. Your program is safe as long as the lithium battery on the controller is sound. There is a slight risk here if your lithium battery isn't good. In order to re-start the controller, you will need to disconnect the ac power and the backup battery (not the lithium). This may be enough to kick it into action. I've had controllers that I've had to kill ac power, battery backup and lithium battery too. Luckily they've all come back up.

Let us know how you go

Cheers

Chris

[bluey]

Chrism

Sorry for the delay in replying, extremely busy.

When I start a project, there is definitely no red trace.

I have disconnected the AC power in the past and there doesn't appear to be any battery backup. When AC power is disconnected, the only LED powered is the C-Bus module and this has a very slow on/off cycling.

I haven't taken the lithium battery from the board at this stage as I couldn't see how that would help.

Any other ideas?

Thanks a bunch for your assistance thus far.

[chrism]

Hi Bluey

This is very strange.... no red trace at all. I have never seen this, except when the comms chip is blown... you say this is not the case though. Are you 100% sure the comms port is working on your PC? Do you have another RS232 device you can check it on?

BTW, the lithium battery is used to hold the program in the controller. I've had experience when the controller has become non-responsive and have had to completely 'cold-boot' the unit by completely removing the program. To remove the program, you need to remove the lithium batter any short the (lithium) battery terminals on the controller board (with the power to the controller off). The shorting of the terminals ensures the small amount of charge left after the batter is removed (in on of the capacitors) is depleted.
With no red trace at all though, this will not be of any value.

Please check your comm settings and physical aspects again

Cheers

Chris

[bluey]

Hi Chris

Unfortunately I haven't had time to continue troubleshooting this problem, hence the lack of response. It looks like I'll need to track down a reliable electrician with some Minder experience to sort the problem out.

In answer to your question, I don't know if the comms prot is working as it should, all I know is that I have no red trace. The other problem is that the LCD display on the keypad is displaying some odd characters. Apart from that, the automation and lighting is working as it should. My only issue is that I can't access the controller to make changes to the scenario.

Thanks for all of your help.

Regards

Craig

[rscott9999]

Hi aLL

I was hoping someone could help with some ideas, and hopefully also explain the comms trace attached

I tried to access my ThinkBoxx to do some changes using v4.0.6 today
and I can't establish communcations with the controller

I have traffic both ways, but they don't seem to establish a conversation

The controller itself seems to be working fine, all scenarios working

Please see attachment for comms trace

I'm concerned about powering down the controller, turnin off the AC power, disconnecting the backup battery and pulling out the lithium battery in case the controller still doesn't want to chat and I then I will have nothing working at all?

regards
Richard

ps. Ilive in adelaide

[chrism]

Hi Richard

Looks like you have comms in both directions, just no sync. To me, it looks like a baud rate conflict. If you are running at 19,200 try dropping back to 9600 or vice versa in your software. If that doesn't do it, might need to try others.

Let us know if that helps

Chris

[rscott9999]

Hi Chris

I have tried both 19200 and 9600 without any luck
An extra piece to the puzzle is that I have CBus Sim on the controller
when I fire up the CBus v2 software it has no issues communicating to the CBus units via the Thinkboxx controller on either comms settings

I don't have any other speed settings to try other than 19200 or 9600 to choose from. How do I get other speed choices?
I have attached the trace from the 19200 test, the previous one was using 9600

cheers
Richard

[Forumadmin]

Hi Richard,
What operating system do you have?
Windows what?

[rscott9999]

I use Vista as the primary box, but I have a backup configuration sitting on another computer using Windows 98 just in case of emergency ..!

Both computers have the same issue communicating with the controller

[rscott9999]

ps
the Vista box uses a USB to serial converter
the Windows 98 box has a serial port on the motherboard

I only used the backup box to see whether it could communicate with the controller when the Vista box wouldn't connect.

as I mentioned before both computers have the same issue trying to start a conversation with the controller

[rscott9999]

Still won't communicate?

Anyone got anymore suggestions?

[chrism]

there are lots of 8's and 0's in your trace which always indicated looking for a modem on that port.... wow, I forgot about those things.

I don't know what else to suggest. Unless you want to risk powering the unit down to try to force comms, then there's nothing else. BTW, 4.0.6 was a version that came out well after the demise of the original company. Not too many people running that version.

[rscott9999]

Well I suppose I'll have to take the chance and power the whole thing down, in the next few weeks and see what happens

4.0.6 has been the most stable version for me for a number of years.

Not sure were I'll be going with the system in the next 5 years. No software development or improvements, so much for future proofing your home.

regards
Richard

[chrism]

Hi Richard

The panel does use industry standard connections like those found on many security panels. A good upgrade path might be the Ness M1 which does have a good amount of ability to write if/then/else type lines not all that different to those found in Minder/Thinkboxx.

BTW, I think mine is on the way out. Had to re-load the program on the weekend after I couldn't disarm the alarm. The comms to the keypad are now quite slow for no obvious reason. My C-Bus network is also playing up too. Anyone know if there is any increase in solar flare activity? :)

[Forumadmin]

My C-Bus network is also playing up too. Anyone know if there is any increase in solar flare activity? :)

My money is all those beta products bashing their collectives together. ;)

[chrism]

My money is all those beta products bashing their collectives together. ;)
Yea good point... Do you know where I can get beta blockers? :)

[mestjm]

Hi all,

I have the same problem as Bluey regarding not being able to communicate with my Minder from my PC. I only see the blue trace (no red trace).

I powered the Minder down by turning off the AC power and disconnecting the backup battery (not the lithium battery). This has not fixed the problem.

From reading this thread, I believe the next thing that I should do is replace the RS-232 chip/s (DS1488 / DS1489).

A few questions:
a) how many chips do I need to replace?
b) I can see two chips on the controller board just behind the 2 x RS232 ports. Are these the chips that need to be replaced?
c) where can I get these chips?
d) do I use 2 x DS1488 or 2 x DS1489 or 1 x DS1488 & 1 x DS1489 - in which case which socket should be used for the DS1488 and DS1489.

Thanks all.

Note: I can communicate with another Minder using the same PC / Com port / cable combination, so these can be ruled out as the cause of the problem that I am experiencing with the problem Minder discussed in this post.