X10 switch control logic

[J Baber]

I have a 3 way hard wired switch for a whole house fan that I want to
replace with non dimming X10 switches. (I do know and accept the X10
reliability factors)

The existing switch has 3 positions HI SPEED | OFF | LOW SPEED.
It is wired 1 wire to power (high) 1 wire to motor Low, 1 wire to motor
Hi. The motor has 3 wires; Hi speed, Low speed Neutral.

I am thinking I can replace this with 2 separate non dimming X10
switches. The 1st would be a ON | OFF toggle style switch, that would
connect the power (hi) to the common contact of the second switch, a non
dimming 2 way ON | ON toggle style switch. One of the 2 switched
contacts to be connected to the motor Hi, and the other switched contact
to be connected to motor Low.

I would mount both switches side by side with the ON | OFF switch to the
left and the HI | LOW to the right for best natural action. One of my
major complaints with the existing switch is that the center OFF is
easy to miss if you are in a hurry, and strangers will almost always use
the WRONG position for the HI / LOW speed. If I mount the switch upside
down we all seem to pick the WRONG one. Using a separate switch (UP for
HI | DOWN for LOW) makes sense from the way that other switches
generally work.

Eventually I intend to use a computer and utilize the X10 control
features to turn a fan on conditionally when the inside temperature
exceeds the outside temperature and the inside temperature exceeds a
predetermined TARGET-TEMP value. The fan would always turn on to the
LOW speed condition, but then if the outside temperature exceeds a
predetermined USE_MAX_FAN parameter after 30 seconds the second switch
would be set to the HIGH speed position. In all cases the turn off
command would reset the speed to LOW.

The fan manufacturer specifies that the fan be started at low speed, but
the supplied switch doesn't force that, and you can see considerable
arcing in the switch if you start it in the high speed position (easy to
do this).

[Badger]

I recommend you look at UPB instead of x10. They work very similar to
X10, with one major exception, they actually work.

That said I don't know if wiring x10 switches like that is ok or not.

Clay

"J Baber" <jimbaber1@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:6JSdnd6dJM4J6I7fRVn-og@comcast.com...
> I have a 3 way hard wired switch for a whole house fan that I want
to
> replace with non dimming X10 switches. (I do know and accept the
X10
> reliability factors)
>
> The existing switch has 3 positions HI SPEED | OFF | LOW SPEED.
> It is wired 1 wire to power (high) 1 wire to motor Low, 1 wire to
motor
> Hi. The motor has 3 wires; Hi speed, Low speed Neutral.
>
> I am thinking I can replace this with 2 separate non dimming X10
> switches. The 1st would be a ON | OFF toggle style switch, that
would
> connect the power (hi) to the common contact of the second switch, a
non
> dimming 2 way ON | ON toggle style switch. One of the 2 switched
> contacts to be connected to the motor Hi, and the other switched
contact
> to be connected to motor Low.
>
> I would mount both switches side by side with the ON | OFF switch to
the
> left and the HI | LOW to the right for best natural action. One of
my
> major complaints with the existing switch is that the center OFF is
> easy to miss if you are in a hurry, and strangers will almost always
use
> the WRONG position for the HI / LOW speed. If I mount the switch
upside
> down we all seem to pick the WRONG one. Using a separate switch (UP
for
> HI | DOWN for LOW) makes sense from the way that other switches
> generally work.
>
> Eventually I intend to use a computer and utilize the X10 control
> features to turn a fan on conditionally when the inside temperature
> exceeds the outside temperature and the inside temperature exceeds a
> predetermined TARGET-TEMP value. The fan would always turn on to
the
> LOW speed condition, but then if the outside temperature exceeds a
> predetermined USE_MAX_FAN parameter after 30 seconds the second
switch
> would be set to the HIGH speed position. In all cases the turn off
> command would reset the speed to LOW.
>
> The fan manufacturer specifies that the fan be started at low speed,
but
> the supplied switch doesn't force that, and you can see considerable
> arcing in the switch if you start it in the high speed position
(easy to
> do this).

[J Baber]

Badger wrote:

>I recommend you look at UPB instead of x10. They work very similar to
>X10, with one major exception, they actually work.
>
>That said I don't know if wiring x10 switches like that is ok or not.
>
>Clay
>
>
Jim Replies:
I suspect you might be correct, but as I replied to others, a whole
house fan is larger that typical ceiling fans and the one I have should
always be started at the low speed and then switched to the high speed
setting (if you want the high speed).

If I were to change to the UPB, Wouldn't I have to change all of the
other X10 stuff I have over? I do not have a lot, but enough that I
would have to buy 20-30 general controls / switches and 2 thermostats
(and I don't recall having seen UPB thermostats)


Jim Baber
Email jim@NOJUNKbaber.org


1350 W Mesa Ave.
Fresno CA, 93711
(559) 435-9068
(559) 905-2204 (A no charge Verizon IN cellphone to other Verizon IN accounts)
See our 10kW grid tied solar system at "www.baber.org"

[Robert Bonomi]

In article <6JSdnd6dJM4J6I7fRVn-og@comcast.com>,
J Baber <jimbaber1@comcast.net> wrote:
>I have a 3 way hard wired switch for a whole house fan that I want to
>replace with non dimming X10 switches. (I do know and accept the X10
>reliability factors)
>
>The existing switch has 3 positions HI SPEED | OFF | LOW SPEED.
>It is wired 1 wire to power (high) 1 wire to motor Low, 1 wire to motor
>Hi. The motor has 3 wires; Hi speed, Low speed Neutral.
>
>I am thinking I can replace this with 2 separate non dimming X10
>switches. The 1st would be a ON | OFF toggle style switch, that would
>connect the power (hi) to the common contact of the second switch, a non
>dimming 2 way ON | ON toggle style switch. One of the 2 switched
>contacts to be connected to the motor Hi, and the other switched contact
>to be connected to motor Low.

[[.. snip gory details ..]]

A couple of caveats:

1) beware the _load_ rating on X-10 switch modules. Particluarly with
motors. Make sure you're using something rated for the _horsepower_
load of the motor, not just the "watts". "Appliance module" type devices
may be indicated. Don't think those exist in a '3-way' (SPDT -- aka
your 'on/on' switch) device.

2) If you gang up two switches 'in series', like you're talking about doing,
when the 1st switch is 'off', you cannot send commands to the 2nd
switch.


I'd be *really* tempted to replace the existing set-up with a couple of
relays _at_the_fan_, and run a low-voltage control system.

Both relays are DPDT, with one 'pole' on each relay used for switching the
power to the fan -- in the same manner as you envision. On the first relay
this pole is the 'on/off' control (SPST-NO), it simply feeds a pole on the
second relay which is High/Low (SPDT -- with the NC contact being used for
the 'low' speed).

The coil for the 1st relay is controlled simply by the 'on/off' switch.

The second high/low relay has some "slightly" fancy wiring for it.


That wiring goes through the NO contacts on the 2nd pole of the 1st
relay, through a NC push-button, and then to (in parallel) a NO push
button, and the NO contacts of the 2nd relay. The NC push-button is
labelled "low speed", and the NO push-button is labelled "high speed".

In the default (power-up) situation, the 2nd relay is in the 'low speed'
setting. *ALWAYS*. because the contacts on the 1st relay were open.
when the 1st relay goes power on, the 2nd relay does -not- energise,
because the circuit is through the NO contacts on the 2nd relay.
When you push the 'high speed' button, the relay pulls in, and those
contacts in parallel with the 'high speed' switch close, *keeping* the
relay in the 'high speed' setting until power to the coil is interrupted.
which happens when *either* the "low speed" button is pushed, _or_ the
1st relay is turned 'off'.

Obviously, you can use 2 push-buttons to control the 1st relay, instead
of a 'switch', if you so choose. By simply using another instance of
that 'latching' circuit.

For your 'full computer-controlled' automation down the road, some simple
transistor 'switches', wired 'alongside' (or instead of) the push-buttons
can be controlled from the parallel port.

[J Baber]

Robert Bonomi wrote:

>In article <6JSdnd6dJM4J6I7fRVn-og@comcast.com>,
>J Baber <jimbaber1@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>>I have a 3 way hard wired switch for a whole house fan that I want to
>>replace with non dimming X10 switches. (I do know and accept the X10
>>reliability factors)
>>
>>The existing switch has 3 positions HI SPEED | OFF | LOW SPEED.
>>It is wired 1 wire to power (high) 1 wire to motor Low, 1 wire to motor
>>Hi. The motor has 3 wires; Hi speed, Low speed Neutral.
>>
>>I am thinking I can replace this with 2 separate non dimming X10
>>switches.[[.. snip gory details ..]]
>>
>Robert Bonomi comments:
>
>A couple of caveats:
>
>1) beware the _load_ rating on X-10 switch modules. Particluarly with
> motors. Make sure you're using something rated for the _horsepower_
> load of the motor, not just the "watts". "Appliance module" type devices
> may be indicated. Don't think those exist in a '3-way' (SPDT -- aka
> your 'on/on' switch) device.
>
>
Jim's answer:
Point well taken, I just got 1 of the 23893W 2 way togglelinc
switches from Smarthome and there is no reference to horsepower in it's
documentation. It is rated for a 600 W load, and that is very close to
my Hi speed max. startup needs. This switch was kind of strange to me,
and is not what I had hoped, and won't work as a single pole double
throw switch as I needed for the second switch, although it would serve
as the ON | OFF switch. It appears I will eventually need to use X10
selected relays to control the speed selection since I have not found a
X10 single pole double pole switch or relay yet, but I am looking.

>2) If you gang up two switches 'in series', like you're talking about doing,
> when the 1st switch is 'off', you cannot send commands to the 2nd
> switch.
>
>
Jim's answer:
I didn't want to do this, the 1st was simply an ON | OFF control the
second would be used to select speed. IF I CAN find a single pole
DOUBLE THROW switch.

>I'd be *really* tempted to replace the existing set-up with a couple of
>relays _at_the_fan_, and run a low-voltage control system.
>
>
May have to, but now that requires some kind of safety circuit to
prevent both the hi and low speed relays being turned on at the same
time (you do know X10 hazards)

>Both relays are DPDT, with one 'pole' on each relay used for switching the
>power to the fan -- in the same manner as you envision. On the first relay
>this pole is the 'on/off' control (SPST-NO), it simply feeds a pole on the
>second relay which is High/Low (SPDT -- with the NC contact being used for
>the 'low' speed).
>
>The coil for the 1st relay is controlled simply by the 'on/off' switch.
>
>The second high/low relay has some "slightly" fancy wiring for it.
>
>
>That wiring goes through the NO contacts on the 2nd pole of the 1st
>relay, through a NC push-button, and then to (in parallel) a NO push
>button, and the NO contacts of the 2nd relay. The NC push-button is
>labelled "low speed", and the NO push-button is labelled "high speed".
>
>In the default (power-up) situation, the 2nd relay is in the 'low speed'
>setting. *ALWAYS*. because the contacts on the 1st relay were open.
>when the 1st relay goes power on, the 2nd relay does -not- energise,
>because the circuit is through the NO contacts on the 2nd relay.
>When you push the 'high speed' button, the relay pulls in, and those
>contacts in parallel with the 'high speed' switch close, *keeping* the
>relay in the 'high speed' setting until power to the coil is interrupted.
>which happens when *either* the "low speed" button is pushed, _or_ the
>1st relay is turned 'off'.
>
>Obviously, you can use 2 push-buttons to control the 1st relay, instead
>of a 'switch', if you so choose. By simply using another instance of
>that 'latching' circuit.
>
>For your 'full computer-controlled' automation down the road, some simple
>transistor 'switches', wired 'alongside' (or instead of) the push-buttons
>can be controlled from the parallel port.
>
>
I haven't fully understood your circuit yet but I am looking at it,
Could you Email or reply with a source of the DPDT relay you are
describing. It seems to me I could just drive that 1 relay from a
second ON | OFF switch to do what I want by wiring the fans Lo speed to
a NC relays contact, the fans High speed to the relays NO contact, and
the AC LOAD from the 2nd switch to the relays Common. If this as a
110VAC relay it's would have it's coil connected to the AC LOAD from the
1st switch and to AC NEUTRAL, if it is a low voltage relay the coil
would be driven from an appropriate power supply for the relay that is
controlled by the same AC LOAD from switch 1.

--
Jim Baber
Email jim@NOJUNKbaber.org


1350 W Mesa Ave.
Fresno CA, 93711
(559) 435-9068
(559) 905-2204 (A no charge Verizon IN cellphone to other Verizon IN accounts)
See our 10kW grid tied solar system at "www.baber.org"

[J Baber]

Jims correction:
The coil of the relay would be controlled by the 2nd switch NOT the
1st (SORRY)

--
Jim Baber
Email jim@NOJUNKbaber.org


1350 W Mesa Ave.
Fresno CA, 93711
(559) 435-9068
(559) 905-2204 (A no charge Verizon IN cellphone to other Verizon IN accounts)
See our 10kW grid tied solar system at "www.baber.org"

[Robert Bonomi]

In article <CIydnYLStfdMkojfRVn-vw@comcast.com>,
J Baber <jim@baber.org> wrote:
>Robert Bonomi wrote:
>
>>In article <6JSdnd6dJM4J6I7fRVn-og@comcast.com>,
>>J Baber <jimbaber1@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I have a 3 way hard wired switch for a whole house fan that I want to
>>>replace with non dimming X10 switches. (I do know and accept the X10
>>>reliability factors)
>>>
>>>The existing switch has 3 positions HI SPEED | OFF | LOW SPEED.
>>>It is wired 1 wire to power (high) 1 wire to motor Low, 1 wire to motor
>>>Hi. The motor has 3 wires; Hi speed, Low speed Neutral.
>>>
>>>I am thinking I can replace this with 2 separate non dimming X10
>>>switches.[[.. snip gory details ..]]
>>>
>>Robert Bonomi comments:
>>
>>A couple of caveats:
>>
>>1) beware the _load_ rating on X-10 switch modules. Particluarly with
>> motors. Make sure you're using something rated for the _horsepower_
>> load of the motor, not just the "watts". "Appliance module" type devices
>> may be indicated. Don't think those exist in a '3-way' (SPDT -- aka
>> your 'on/on' switch) device.
>>
>>
>Jim's answer:
> Point well taken, I just got 1 of the 23893W 2 way togglelinc
>switches from Smarthome and there is no reference to horsepower in it's
>documentation. It is rated for a 600 W load, and that is very close to
>my Hi speed max. startup needs. This switch was kind of strange to me,
>and is not what I had hoped, and won't work as a single pole double
>throw switch as I needed for the second switch, although it would serve
>as the ON | OFF switch. It appears I will eventually need to use X10
>selected relays to control the speed selection since I have not found a
>X10 single pole double pole switch or relay yet, but I am looking.
>
>>2) If you gang up two switches 'in series', like you're talking about doing,
>> when the 1st switch is 'off', you cannot send commands to the 2nd
>> switch.
>>
>>
>Jim's answer:
> I didn't want to do this, the 1st was simply an ON | OFF control the
>second would be used to select speed. IF I CAN find a single pole
>DOUBLE THROW switch.

Are you *sure* you don't? :)

What if:
(a) the fan is _running_ at high speed,
(b) somebody *manually* switches the 'on/off' control to off.

HOW do you _remotely_ "start" at =low= speed the next time?

>>I'd be *really* tempted to replace the existing set-up with a couple of
>>relays _at_the_fan_, and run a low-voltage control system.
>>
>>
>May have to, but now that requires some kind of safety circuit to
>prevent both the hi and low speed relays being turned on at the same
>time (you do know X10 hazards)

Nah. The circuit I describe provides that interlocking, *and* automatic
'fall-back' to the low-speed setting in the event of _any_ power-off
event. Manual, 'directed', *or* 'un-commanded' (e.g., utility outage).

See the 'schematic' below.

>>Both relays are DPDT, with one 'pole' on each relay used for switching the
>>power to the fan -- in the same manner as you envision. On the first relay
>>this pole is the 'on/off' control (SPST-NO), it simply feeds a pole on the
>>second relay which is High/Low (SPDT -- with the NC contact being used for
>>the 'low' speed).
>>
>>The coil for the 1st relay is controlled simply by the 'on/off' switch.
>>
>>The second high/low relay has some "slightly" fancy wiring for it.
>>
>>
>>That wiring goes through the NO contacts on the 2nd pole of the 1st
>>relay, through a NC push-button, and then to (in parallel) a NO push
>>button, and the NO contacts of the 2nd relay. The NC push-button is
>>labelled "low speed", and the NO push-button is labelled "high speed".
>>
>>In the default (power-up) situation, the 2nd relay is in the 'low speed'
>>setting. *ALWAYS*. because the contacts on the 1st relay were open.
>>when the 1st relay goes power on, the 2nd relay does -not- energise,
>>because the circuit is through the NO contacts on the 2nd relay.
>>When you push the 'high speed' button, the relay pulls in, and those
>>contacts in parallel with the 'high speed' switch close, *keeping* the
>>relay in the 'high speed' setting until power to the coil is interrupted.
>>which happens when *either* the "low speed" button is pushed, _or_ the
>>1st relay is turned 'off'.
>>
>>Obviously, you can use 2 push-buttons to control the 1st relay, instead
>>of a 'switch', if you so choose. By simply using another instance of
>>that 'latching' circuit.
>>
>>For your 'full computer-controlled' automation down the road, some simple
>>transistor 'switches', wired 'alongside' (or instead of) the push-buttons
>>can be controlled from the parallel port.
>>
>>
>I haven't fully understood your circuit yet but I am looking at it,
>Could you Email or reply with a source of the DPDT relay you are
>describing.

It's just a "standard" DPDT relay, Available from pretty much _any_
electronics supply. Radio Shack sells a relatively inexpensive 4PDT
that would do the job. (anything DT with 'at least 2' poles will work, )

The 'magic' is in wiring things up in a 'latching' circuit.

Here's the basic circuit:
(the "X" means 'not connected to anything)

O-X O-------------- Fan low
AC HOT -------------O---- /---------------O----
. O-----/ . O-------------- Fan high
. .
. .
. +----------------------+
| . O-X | | . o-X |
12V ---o|o-----+----O---- /----o|o----+---O---- |
=== | . O-----/ === . O----+ |
(push off) | . (push for low) . | |
+----------------------------+ . | |
. | | . | | |
. === | . | === |
+-------------o o-----+ +------+---o o---+
c (push on) c (push for high)
o o
i i
l l
+------+ +------+
| |
| |
Gnd--------------------------+--------------------------+



Hint: it is actually possible to _combine" the "push on", pushbutton with
the "push for low" button, (just requires a SPDT-NO pushbutton, with
t all to the 'left' of the 1st relay contact, above) , and then you
can make a simple three-button switchplate.

High

ON / Low

OFF

Note: if the fan is OFF, pushing the 'high' button does *nothing*,
you have to push the 'ON / low' button to start it.

[J Baber]

Robert Bonomi wrote:

>In article <CIydnYLStfdMkojfRVn-vw@comcast.com>,
>J Baber <jim@baber.org> wrote:
>
>
>> <>Robert Bonomi wrote:
>> J Baber <jimbaber1@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>I have a 3 way hard wired switch for a whole house fan that I want to
>>>>replace with non dimming X10 switches. (I do know and accept the X10
>>>>reliability factors)
>>>>
>>>>The existing switch has 3 positions HI SPEED | OFF | LOW SPEED.
>>>>It is wired 1 wire to power (high) 1 wire to motor Low, 1 wire to motor
>>>>Hi. The motor has 3 wires; Hi speed, Low speed Neutral.
>>>>
>>>>I am thinking I can replace this with 2 separate non dimming X10
>>>>switches.[[.. snip gory details ..]]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Robert Bonomi comments:
>>>
>>>A couple of caveats:
>>>
>>>1) beware the _load_ rating on X-10 switch modules. Particluarly with
>>> motors. Make sure you're using something rated for the _horsepower_
>>> load of the motor, not just the "watts". "Appliance module" type devices
>>> may be indicated. Don't think those exist in a '3-way' (SPDT -- aka
>>> your 'on/on' switch) device.
>>>
>>Jim's answer:
>> Point well taken, I just got 1 of the 23893W 2 way togglelinc
>>switches from Smarthome and there is no reference to horsepower in it's
>>documentation. It is rated for a 600 W load, and that is very close to
>>my Hi speed max. startup needs. This switch was kind of strange to me,
>>and is not what I had hoped, and won't work as a single pole double
>>throw switch as I needed for the second switch, although it would serve
>>as the ON | OFF switch. It appears I will eventually need to use X10
>>selected relays to control the speed selection since I have not found a
>>X10 single pole double pole switch or relay yet, but I am looking.
>>
>>
>>
>>>2) If you gang up two switches 'in series', like you're talking about doing,
>>> when the 1st switch is 'off', you cannot send commands to the 2nd
>>> switch.
>>>
>>>
>>Jim's answer:
>> I didn't want to do this, the 1st was simply an ON | OFF control the
>>second would be used to select speed. IF I CAN find a single pole
>>DOUBLE THROW switch.
>>
>>
Robert Bonomi wrote:

>Are you *sure* you don't? :)
>
>What if:
> (a) the fan is _running_ at high speed,
> (b) somebody *manually* switches the 'on/off' control to off.
>
>HOW do you _remotely_ "start" at =low= speed the next time?
>
>> >Robert Bonomi previously wrote:
>
>>>I'd be *really* tempted to replace the existing set-up with a couple of
>>>relays _at_the_fan_, and run a low-voltage control system.
>>>
>>Jim's answer:
>>
>>
>>May have to, but now that requires some kind of safety circuit to
>>prevent both the hi and low speed relays being turned on at the same
>>time (you do know X10 hazards)
>>
>>Robert Bonomi wrote:
>
>Nah. The circuit I describe provides that interlocking, *and* automatic
>'fall-back' to the low-speed setting in the event of _any_ power-off
>event. Manual, 'directed', *or* 'un-commanded' (e.g., utility outage).
>
>See the 'schematic' below.
>
>>>oth relays are DPDT, with one 'pole' on each relay used for switching the
>>>power to the fan -- in the same manner as you envision. On the first relay
>>>this pole is the 'on/off' control (SPST-NO), it simply feeds a pole on the
>>>second relay which is High/Low (SPDT -- with the NC contact being used for
>>>the 'low' speed).
>>>
>>>The coil for the 1st relay is controlled simply by the 'on/off' switch.
>>>
>>>The second high/low relay has some "slightly" fancy wiring for it.
>>>
>>>
>>>That wiring goes through the NO contacts on the 2nd pole of the 1st
>>>relay, through a NC push-button, and then to (in parallel) a NO push
>>>button, and the NO contacts of the 2nd relay. The NC push-button is
>>>labelled "low speed", and the NO push-button is labelled "high speed".
>>>
>>>In the default (power-up) situation, the 2nd relay is in the 'low speed'
>>>setting. *ALWAYS*. because the contacts on the 1st relay were open.
>>>when the 1st relay goes power on, the 2nd relay does -not- energise,
>>>because the circuit is through the NO contacts on the 2nd relay.
>>>When you push the 'high speed' button, the relay pulls in, and those
>>>contacts in parallel with the 'high speed' switch close, *keeping* the
>>>relay in the 'high speed' setting until power to the coil is interrupted.
>>>which happens when *either* the "low speed" button is pushed, _or_ the
>>>1st relay is turned 'off'.
>>>
>>>Obviously, you can use 2 push-buttons to control the 1st relay, instead
>>>of a 'switch', if you so choose. By simply using another instance of
>>>that 'latching' circuit.
>>>
>>>For your 'full computer-controlled' automation down the road, some simple
>>>transistor 'switches', wired 'alongside' (or instead of) the push-buttons
>>>can be controlled from the parallel port.
>>>
>> Jim's response:
>>I haven't fully understood your circuit yet but, I am looking at it,
>>Could you Email or reply with a source of the DPDT relay you are
>>describing.
>>
>
>It's just a "standard" DPDT relay, Available from pretty much _any_
>electronics supply. Radio Shack sells a relatively inexpensive 4PDT
>that would do the job. (anything DT with 'at least 2' poles will work, )
>
>The 'magic' is in wiring things up in a 'latching' circuit.
>
>Here's the basic circuit:
>(the "X" means 'not connected to anything)
>
> O-X O-------------- Fan low
>AC HOT -------------O---- /---------------O----
> . O-----/ . O-------------- Fan high
> . .
> . .
> . +----------------------+
> | . O-X | | . o-X |
>12V ---o|o-----+----O---- /----o|o----+---O---- |
> === | . O-----/ === . O----+ |
> (push off) | . (push for low) . | |
> +----------------------------+ . | |
> . | | . | | |
> . === | . | === |
> +-------------o o-----+ +------+---o o---+
> c (push on) c (push for high)
> o o
> i i
> l l
> +------+ +------+
> | |
> | |
>Gnd--------------------------+--------------------------+
>
>Hint: it is actually possible to _combine" the "push on", pushbutton with
> the "push for low" button, (just requires a SPDT-NO pushbutton, with
> it all to the 'left' of the 1st relay contact, above) , and then you
> can make a simple three-button switchplate.
>
> High
>
> ON / Low
>
> OFF
>
> Note: if the fan is OFF, pushing the 'high' button does *nothing*,
> you have to push the 'ON / low' button to start it.
>
Jim's answer:

Thanks, You have given me good ideas, I just do not want push buttons
because they would be "Non-standard" as far as this house is wired now.
Pretty much the same reason that I don't like Decora style switches.

It seems to me I could just drive 1 relay from the second ON | OFF
switch to do what I want by wiring the fans Lo speed to a NC relays
contact, the fans High speed to the relays NO contact, and the AC LOAD
from the 2nd switch to the relays Common. If this as a 110VAC relay
it's would have it's coil connected to the AC LOAD from the 1st switch
and to AC NEUTRAL, if it is a low voltage relay the coil would be driven
from an appropriate power supply for the relay that is controlled by the
same AC LOAD from switch 1.

Both switches are SPST

SW 1 ON | OFF O---+---------- Fan low NC contact
AC HOT -------------O---- +----------------O---- |
O-----+ . O-----+-------- Fan high NO contact
. | |
. | | NO and NC to 2nd switch
. O---+ | with intermittant during
----O----------------------O---- | off (switching) time to
SW 2 O . O-----+ cause coil drop out
HI on +--------------------------+
c 120 vac coil
o /or low voltage power supply
i for a SPDT low voltage relay
l
+
|
Gnd-/------------------------------------------+------------------ Fan Neutral




--
Jim Baber
Email jim@NOJUNKbaber.org


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