newbee Q: X10 experience ?

[Freaking Media]

Does anyone have practical experience with the X10 home automation modules.
They seem OK but I heared rumours like the X10-system isn't reliable ?

flxy

[Brian]

X10 can be realiable but may take some work to get it this way. Noise on the
powerline can cause alot of problems. If you go with X10 buy quaility
products, a coupler/repeater, a few filters, and a signal tester can be a
great asset. Some have great luck with X10 others just get frustrated. It
can take some time trouble shooting issues. For me this was too much to get
a system working so I installed Zwave, a RF solution.

--
Brian Dye
-------------------------------------
brian@tech-home.com
http://tech-home.com


"Freaking Media" <felixdonkers@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cuqsl5$i3$1@reader13.wxs.nl...
> Does anyone have practical experience with the X10 home automation
> modules.
> They seem OK but I heared rumours like the X10-system isn't reliable ?
>
> flxy
>
>

[Dweeb]

On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 20:07:01 +0100, Freaking Media wrote:

> Does anyone have practical experience with the X10 home automation modules.
> They seem OK but I heared rumours like the X10-system isn't reliable ?
>
> flxy

It depends what you mean by reliability. I have about 25
X10 modules controlling household and landscape lighting
via a CM11A computer interface. It's been operating for
about 7-8 years. In that time I've only very rarely had
a light fail to turn on or off at its programmed time.

I had one wall-switch module go bad for the first time
last year. (Note: my wall-switch modules are only rarely
operated manually - that is an apparent weak spot in the
design of the X10-manufactured units.)

However there are a number of factors whereby other users
could have a very different experience from mine.

I would never use X10 in any situation where personal injury,
damage to property, or substantial financial loss would
result from failure of the X10 system to perform as expected.

[Freaking Media]

> It depends what you mean by reliability. I have about 25
> X10 modules controlling household and landscape lighting
> via a CM11A computer interface. It's been operating for
> about 7-8 years. In that time I've only very rarely had
> a light fail to turn on or off at its programmed time.
>
> I had one wall-switch module go bad for the first time
> last year. (Note: my wall-switch modules are only rarely
> operated manually - that is an apparent weak spot in the
> design of the X10-manufactured units.)
>
> However there are a number of factors whereby other users
> could have a very different experience from mine.
>
> I would never use X10 in any situation where personal injury,
> damage to property, or substantial financial loss would
> result from failure of the X10 system to perform as expected.
>

Thanks,
are there more reliable alternatives ?
Flxy

[Markus Baertschi]

Freaking Media wrote:
> Thanks,
> are there more reliable alternatives ?
> Flxy
>

There are the professional, hardwired solutions. Very reliable, but
quite expensive, especially if you want to start small and do it yourself.
Some new RF technologies are starting to come up, but the product line
are still very limited.

Markus

[Dweeb]

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:30:17 +0100, Freaking Media wrote:

>> It depends what you mean by reliability. I have about 25
>> X10 modules controlling household and landscape lighting
>> via a CM11A computer interface. It's been operating for
>> about 7-8 years. In that time I've only very rarely had
>> a light fail to turn on or off at its programmed time.
>>
>> I had one wall-switch module go bad for the first time
>> last year. (Note: my wall-switch modules are only rarely
>> operated manually - that is an apparent weak spot in the
>> design of the X10-manufactured units.)
>>
>> However there are a number of factors whereby other users
>> could have a very different experience from mine.
>>
>> I would never use X10 in any situation where personal injury,
>> damage to property, or substantial financial loss would
>> result from failure of the X10 system to perform as expected.
>>
>
> Thanks,
> are there more reliable alternatives ?
> Flxy

I'll say again, it depends what you mean by reliability.

Consider:
What do you expect to use your intended system for?
What would be the consequences if the system should fail?

In my case, a failure means one or more lights don't come
on and I walk into a dark house. Or they stay on and I'm
out the cost of a few kilowatt-hours of electric power. Or
I have to spend $10-15 to replace a module. Or maybe even
have to spend $50 to replace the controller.

[Brian]

Just a few

Zwave (RF)
UPB (Powerline but better technology)
Zigbee(Soon) RF
SMarthome is about to introduce a RF & powerline mix (Insteon)
Several hardwire options they are the best if you have acess to running the
wires
Lightolier (has plc and hardwire options) Very realiable
Lutron
Several others but just wanted to throw a few out.

--
Brian Dye
-------------------------------------
brian@tech-home.com
http://tech-home.com
"Freaking Media" <felixdonkers@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cutfev$6qd$1@reader11.wxs.nl...
>> It depends what you mean by reliability. I have about 25
>> X10 modules controlling household and landscape lighting
>> via a CM11A computer interface. It's been operating for
>> about 7-8 years. In that time I've only very rarely had
>> a light fail to turn on or off at its programmed time.
>>
>> I had one wall-switch module go bad for the first time
>> last year. (Note: my wall-switch modules are only rarely
>> operated manually - that is an apparent weak spot in the
>> design of the X10-manufactured units.)
>>
>> However there are a number of factors whereby other users
>> could have a very different experience from mine.
>>
>> I would never use X10 in any situation where personal injury,
>> damage to property, or substantial financial loss would
>> result from failure of the X10 system to perform as expected.
>>
>
> Thanks,
> are there more reliable alternatives ?
> Flxy
>
>
>

[Freaking Media]

To me, reliable means 'as reliable as my plain old wired system'. I do not
want to be frustrated by switches that don't work or light that goes on/off
beyond my control.
I do not like to run into the famous 'blue screen effects' like with PC's.

flxy

"Dweeb" <dweeb@dweebsRus.org> schreef in bericht
news:pan.2005.02.16.02.18.27.520743@dweebsRus.org. ..
> On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:30:17 +0100, Freaking Media wrote:
>
> >> It depends what you mean by reliability. I have about 25
> >> X10 modules controlling household and landscape lighting
> >> via a CM11A computer interface. It's been operating for
> >> about 7-8 years. In that time I've only very rarely had
> >> a light fail to turn on or off at its programmed time.
> >>
> >> I had one wall-switch module go bad for the first time
> >> last year. (Note: my wall-switch modules are only rarely
> >> operated manually - that is an apparent weak spot in the
> >> design of the X10-manufactured units.)
> >>
> >> However there are a number of factors whereby other users
> >> could have a very different experience from mine.
> >>
> >> I would never use X10 in any situation where personal injury,
> >> damage to property, or substantial financial loss would
> >> result from failure of the X10 system to perform as expected.
> >>
> >
> > Thanks,
> > are there more reliable alternatives ?
> > Flxy
>
> I'll say again, it depends what you mean by reliability.
>
> Consider:
> What do you expect to use your intended system for?
> What would be the consequences if the system should fail?
>
> In my case, a failure means one or more lights don't come
> on and I walk into a dark house. Or they stay on and I'm
> out the cost of a few kilowatt-hours of electric power. Or
> I have to spend $10-15 to replace a module. Or maybe even
> have to spend $50 to replace the controller.
>
>
>
>
>

[Dave Houston]

Most of which are unavailable in Europe. There are numerous RF systems
available in Europe as well as a few hard-wire systems but this is not the
best forum for asking about them.

"Brian" <brian@tech-home.com> wrote:

>Just a few
>
>Zwave (RF)
>UPB (Powerline but better technology)
>Zigbee(Soon) RF
>SMarthome is about to introduce a RF & powerline mix (Insteon)
>Several hardwire options they are the best if you have acess to running the
>wires
>Lightolier (has plc and hardwire options) Very realiable
>Lutron
>Several others but just wanted to throw a few out.

[Dweeb]

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 10:24:37 +0100, Freaking Media wrote:

> To me, reliable means 'as reliable as my plain old wired system'. I do not
> want to be frustrated by switches that don't work or light that goes on/off
> beyond my control.
> I do not like to run into the famous 'blue screen effects' like with PC's.

Well then by your definition, my X10 installation is MORE reliable
than the original wired system. I run the lights slightly dimmed
so am not replacing a burned-out light bulb or two every week,
which was the previous situation. And I've had to replace two
wired wall switches versus one X10 wall switch over the same
period of time.

If my X10-manufactured wall switches failed from heavy manual
use, I'd probably replace them with Leviton-branded switches,
which seem to have a better reputation in this regard. However
they cost 3-4 times as much.

[Freaking Media]

> Most of which are unavailable in Europe. There are numerous RF systems
> available in Europe as well as a few hard-wire systems but this is not the
> best forum for asking about them.

I learned that A10 (Xanura; i.e. Holec Eaton) is more reliable than X10
because it checkes what's being transmitted and retransmits in case of
collission, etc.

Any experience with that ?

flxy
P.s. indeed I live in Europe (the Netherlands). Home automation is not yet
well known overhere. In fact only office buildings and expensive houses have
some. Common people do not use stuuf like this. How about the US ?

[Dave Houston]

"Freaking Media" <felixdonkers@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> Most of which are unavailable in Europe. There are numerous RF systems
>> available in Europe as well as a few hard-wire systems but this is not the
>> best forum for asking about them.
>
>I learned that A10 (Xanura; i.e. Holec Eaton) is more reliable than X10
>because it checkes what's being transmitted and retransmits in case of
>collission, etc.
>
>Any experience with that ?

If it's the same A10 that's made by ACT here, I have no personal experience.
It is rather pricey so its market seems to be mostly in commercial buildings
such as hotels.

>flxy
>P.s. indeed I live in Europe (the Netherlands). Home automation is not yet
>well known overhere. In fact only office buildings and expensive houses have
>some. Common people do not use stuuf like this. How about the US ?

There are no reliable statistics but home automation has seen wider use here
because the market has been bigger. Until relatively recently European
contries had disparate electrical systems so the market was fragmented.

Here, X-10 is inexpensive and is the most widely used. Hard-wire systems
also tend to be used only in expensive homes here. They are difficult to
retrofit.

RF systems are more widespread in Europe because CE allows much higher
transmission levels (which translates into greater range) than does the FCC.

[Brian]

Correct I didn't realize he was in Europe when posting.

--
Brian Dye
-------------------------------------
brian@tech-home.com
http://tech-home.com
"Dave Houston" <nobody@whocares.com> wrote in message
news:42132b22.426773@nntp.fuse.net...
> Most of which are unavailable in Europe. There are numerous RF systems
> available in Europe as well as a few hard-wire systems but this is not the
> best forum for asking about them.
>
> "Brian" <brian@tech-home.com> wrote:
>
>>Just a few
>>
>>Zwave (RF)
>>UPB (Powerline but better technology)
>>Zigbee(Soon) RF
>>SMarthome is about to introduce a RF & powerline mix (Insteon)
>>Several hardwire options they are the best if you have acess to running
>>the
>>wires
>>Lightolier (has plc and hardwire options) Very realiable
>>Lutron
>>Several others but just wanted to throw a few out.
>
>