Help needed?

[rscott9999]

I have a homeminder 4.0.4 installed and was looking for updated software now that Clipsal no longer support the product.

I have an intermittent problem, where the central monitoring module (software), just stops contacting the monitoring centre (ie. weekly check), until the software is reloaded.

Also have a "keypad communications lost" error appear on the LCD display for a brief moment, it happens quite regularly.

Any help welcome

[rhamer]

The keypad error is a known fault and requires a firmware upgrade. MCM electronics make the keypad.

http://www.mcmelectronics.com.au/

I don't know about the central monitoring station issue, however you can get an upgrade to the software/firmware to turn it into a Thinkboxx and get quite a bit more functionality that Clipsal removed from the Minder version. Just be sitting down when you get the price.

http://www.smart.com.au/index.html

Cheers

Rohan

[rscott9999]

Thanks for the reply Rohan

But just a few questions, first do I need to contact MCM for a firmware upgrade to fix the keypad error?

Second, I have tried to deal with smart.com.au before.
I have had no luck in getting them to return my emails ... any suggestions?

Richard

[rhamer]

Thanks for the reply Rohan

But just a few questions, first do I need to contact MCM for a firmware upgrade to fix the keypad error?

Second, I have tried to deal with smart.com.au before.
I have had no luck in getting them to return my emails ... any suggestions?

Richard

I actually got my new keypad chip from Clipsal before the divorce, but I believe MCM is your best bet now. If I remember correctly, you need to go from v1.6 to v1.9, but someone else will correct me if I'm wrong.

As for Smart, yep that's what they are like. They are utterly hopeless and I wouldn't deal with them at all if I didn't have to.

Send them an email every morning and afternoon until somebody finally responds.

BTW you can get the software on a 30 day trial, I think I even uploaded it here somewhere (v4.06). If you load it on a different PC you can check out the additional features before you buy, but beware the software is now locked to the controller and you need a key to keep it working after 30 days. So dont download it to the controller, just look at it on a PC.

Cheers

Rohan

[Drew]

I called MCM and got chips to update all of my 4 keypads - and it was dead easy. They were very helpful.

[rscott9999]

Thanks for the help guys, great to find people who are willing to help out

I will contact MCM about the firmware chips - I have 2 keypads

I'm also looking for some advice ...

Version 4.1 was/is the last version Smart have advertised, 5.0 wasn't appeared tho promised for 2 years now, you can't get 4.1 from their website anymore ... you need to email them first, which they don't answer, catch 22

Are you both using Version 4.1 ... or have you gone elsewhere for software for the ThinkBoxx?

I still run the homeminder 4.0.4 software on an old windows 98 box.. which I want to move off to something newer. Keeping in mind I currently configure all the CBUS gear through the Homeminder software interface. What would you recommend I do?

[Drew]

I am running V4.06 - which is pretty glitch free. TB V4.10 is a charged upgrade from Smart - but only offers support for C-bus through the C-bus serial interface as opposed to the Sim. If you cannot lay your hands on a Sim and you you need to interface C-bus - then TB v4.10 is the version you need, otherwise stick to TB v4.06. As I understand it Thinkboxx v4.04 was a little buggy which v4.06 fixed. Smart are still going, I was in email contact recently - if you want the technicians email address - send me your email address otherwise use their generic address on their website. I would send you a copy of my v4.06 to test, but remember that the firmware upgrade that goes with TB v4.06 is locked to the controller serial number - so you will need to get a ligit copy from Smart for more than 30 days operation - which is fair enough.

Cheers,

Drew

[rhamer]

Yeah, all of what Drew said.

Mine is 4.06 as well.

I actually have an email from them telling me that any future upgrade after 4.06 would only cost me $100 as I paid full price for 4.05, but now they won't have a bar of it.

The biggest difference between Minder and Thinkbox is not in the versions per se, but the fact that Clipsal removed functionality from the Minder version of the same release. So Thinkboxx 4.04 has more functionality than Minder 4.04. So when you get Thinkboxx 4.06, it is quite a big step forward.

Cheers

Rohan

[rscott9999]

Thanks guys

So from yours emails I gather the following.
TB V4.1.0 only offers support for C-bus through the C-bus serial interface
(how would you set that up?)
TB V4.0.6 only offers support for C-bus through the C-bus SIMM.

Does version v4.1.0 offer anything over and above 4.0.6?

Also this was posted a while back

"For anyone who has used minder/ homeminder/ thinkboxx in the
last 6> years you know that when it moved to a 32 bit operating system ,
WINNT/2000?XP, that auto tag import feature was lost with WIN95-98"

If I install either v4.0.6 or v4.10 on a Micorosoft XP box ,will the Auto-tag import will work for CBus V2 projects

Has anyone resolved how to interface Clipsal toolkit to TB? I haven't moved to using the Clipsal toolkit due to the fact my 4.0.4 setup with CBUS V2 projects works seemlessly.

[rhamer]

If you use a serial PCI then it plugs into one of the serial ports, apparently it works quite well and is seemless to the rest of the programming.

However if your hardware has a Simm then you don't need to worry.

I don't think the differences between 4.06 and 4.1 are that great, I think I have both at home, so I'll see if I can read the release notes.

The tag import stuff also works with V2 projects and 4.06.

If you use Toolkit, then you need to export your project out as a V2 file and use that for the tag import. There is an app note produced by Thinkboxx on how to do this.

There is no connection between Thinkboxx and Toolkit, apart from Toolkit seeing it as a C-Bus device on the network. You can no longer use the Thinkboxx (or Minder) as a PCI for programming C-Bus devices. This is a Toolkit thing, not a Thinkboxx change. V2 programming software would still allow Thinkbox to act as a PCI

Cheers

Rohan

[rscott9999]

Hi Guys

Well I tried to install the new version 1.9 MCM EPROM chips into the LCD keypads on the weekend, with no success

Both keypads just showed a COMMS error and asked to "contact your installer"

The keypads had version 0.92 and version 1.6 chips respectively, before I changed them over.
The 0.92 chip was labelled SMART 0.92 whereas the 1.6 chip was labelled MCM 1.6.

So I went a put the original EPROMS back in their original positions, well version 0.92 works fine, but now the keypad with version 1.6 shows the same COMMS error!

I thought of exchanging the EPROM locations, (ie. put the 0.92 chip into the other keypad) and the keypad that I put the 0.92 chip works fine, and the problem has moved to the other keypad with the 1.6 chip

Is there anything in the minder (remember I am using minder 4.0.4) that needs to change to recognise version 1.9 chips or 1.6 chips

I can't understand how the 1.6 chip worked in the first place ... wierd problem

More help needed?
Richard

[charlie crackle]

Did you go into setup on the keypad and re setup the unit ID ??

Charles

[rhamer]

The setup procedure is in the attached document, in case you don't have it.

Cheers

Rohan

[rscott9999]

Yes the address refresh on the LCD keypad solved the problem.

Not sure how the old EPROM got reset to factory default 00, when removing it from its slot, the second old chip didn't have that problem.
Any way seems to be working fine now.

Thanks for help guys, especially the LCD keypad instructions Rohan

[rscott9999]

I have the definitive answer to my problem

It seems that version 4.0.4 of the software reverts back to High Speed DTMF system when a AC power loss happens to the panel (whatever the duration of the power loss). Doesn't matter about having a battery backup.

I didn't notice the change back in the actual control panel / controller config ... I checked my telstra account and noticed that a call was made to the monitoring company at the right time.

So the controller must have been call the monitoring station, but with the wrong protocol!

So hence a reload of the controller sets the setting back to Contact ID, and all is well!!

[rscott9999]

Ok, seems the LCD issue is resolved.
The monitoring issue is identified, possible solutions are being investigated.

On the LAN enabling side of things, has anyone setup a Lantronix UDS1100 Serial to LAN device with a Homeminder / Thinkboxx.

I have used the instructions posted on the website, but have had no success in getting the two to talk to each other.

Richard

[chrism]

Haven't done it for about 8 years, but I remember it wasn't too difficult. The Lantronix interface converts RS232 to TCP/IP. Probably best to select a safe comm speed of 9600 to start with. Connect the Lantronix interface to the RS232 port and your (local) network. Now, with the Lantronix re-director software, setup a virtual port on your PC. When connection with your Minder/ThinkBoxx software, call the Minder/ThinkBoxx on the virtiual port of the Lantronix. Good practice to have your screen trace on the screen so you can ensure bi-directional comms is present (blue trace is your PC sending and red is receiving).

I've done this with other intrfaces too and had great success

On you issue of changing reporting, we just put a UPS into old jobs where this is an issue. More cost effective (than upgrading to 4.0.6) and we normally backup the ADSL router/modem too.

Cheers

Chris

[rscott9999]

The serial cable from the Thinkboxx ends up in my patch box
Its a DB9 to DB9 straight through cable.

I believe I need a DB9 to DB25 null modem adapter to fit the Lantronix UDS1100

Does anyone have the exact serial port settings from the Thinkboxx
its it 9600, 8 bit, 1 stopbit, no parity with no flow control?

does anyone have the exact pinouts required for the null modem adapter required to make it all work

I tried a DB9 to DB25 converter and then connected a DB25 to DB25 null modem adapter, but I believe there is something wrong. Pins 2 and 3 I think are ok, but 5 and 7 on the DB25 to DB25 null adapter are looped together on each side, which seems wrong.

All help welcome

[coppo1]

I have the definitive answer to my problem

It seems that version 4.0.4 of the software reverts back to High Speed DTMF system when a AC power loss happens to the panel (whatever the duration of the power loss). Doesn't matter about having a battery backup.

So hence a reload of the controller sets the setting back to Contact ID, and all is well!!

Big fella what you say here has been confirmed by smarts themselves but you are new to how you go about finding their answers...;)

The only way you ever got a real answer was to wait for the next version of software to come out and then read the "readme.txt" file that they always published in the minder root folder.. it then told you of any issues they had acknowledged and fixed.

the auto changing of "security monitoring protocol" after power reset was discussed there. pretty sure i listed that in these forums somewhere ages ago.

You will prolly never get any reliable luck with c-bus toolkit and a minder that uses the onboard c-bus simm... the onboard simm was firmware version 1.0 or something and the commands that toolkit uses to pull out info are made for
PC-INT 4 onwards pretty much.

The option for the PC-INT off the 2nd rs485 port is the best as mentioned elsewhere. smarts had all the doccos for it on their site previously and i trashed most of that info from my hard-drive ages ago.

[rscott9999]

Anyone got any recommendations for a small UPS for the Thinkboxx..

ps. I finally figured out the right settings for the ethernet serial device to connect to a Thinkboxx, and null modem cable to suit it as well

[charlie crackle]

Why dies us need a UPS when it has a battery ???

[rscott9999]

Thinkboxx has Aux1 and Aux2 power connections

Auxiliary 1 is powered from the backup battery (if fitted) in the
case of a power failure, whereas Auxiliary 2 is not.

I have a motion sensor connected to AUX2 which when power is lost can set off the alarm system

[charlie crackle]

Ahh... I see that would be a problem. Your PIR pull a fair current ? most moden ones are very low currnet (if you turn the LED off) Multiple keypad cause an issue to

APC used to make a UPS perfect for Home automation. it was wall mountable ethernet access for monitoring I have just searched there website but can not find it but I suppose any ups that does sinewave (NOT Square wave) would do

[anonymouscoward]

I had a current problem with my door strike. I ended up wiring it to the backup battery via a resettable fuse. So far I have had no problems with it.

[rhamer]

I had a current problem with my door strike. I ended up wiring it to the backup battery via a resettable fuse. So far I have had no problems with it.

I did the same thing for my indoor sirens via a relay that is driven by a normal output. I also upped the battery size to make it last longer.

Cheers

Rohan

[rscott9999]

Hi Everyone

Anyone remember the keyboard keys you need to press in the Thinkboxx GUI to bring up controller information such as MotherBoard serial number, Firmware versions etc.

I seems to have forgotten the keyboard sequence, and can't remember here I had it documented.

regards
Richard

[Forumadmin]

Try holding down menu and pressing 1

[rscott9999]

Which is the MENU button?

Are you talking about the LCD keypad or about the Windows XP Thinkboxx GUI software interface to actual Thinkboxx controller

I remember using a keyboard sequence with software on Windows XP to bring up a view of the motherboard and firmware information + other info as well.

[rscott9999]

I remembered the keyboard sequence

ALT+J .... shows the Controller information from the GUI on the PC

for anyone who is interested !

[charlie crackle]

Handy Thanks