re: power meter monitoring

[intergate news groups]

Mark,
Thanks for the related links. I was more then just a little surprised at the
holier then thou reaction to my post. I thought sharing both ideas and
information on interesting related products was exactly what the group was
all about. I remembered seeing several posts requesting information on how
to monitor the main power meter, as well as posts mentioning a desire to be
able to monitor peak power usage, which I didn't think the kill a watt meter
would do. Here I thought I was simply passing along some useful information
I ran accrossed,
only to get slammed as a spammer. I also wonder how many posters search the
group each time before posting a question or comment. I can personally
remember seeing dozens of messages that would fail this criteria, and I for
one would not slam them for it. We are supposed to be helping each other,
aren't we??
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark_F_Hult" <
MFHult@nothydrologistnot.com
>
Newsgroups: comp.home.automation
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: Power monitoring device
> On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 18:20:56 GMT,
nobody@whocares.com
(Dave Houston) wrot
> e in
> message <
45d744f0.69684750@nntp.fuse.net
>:
>
>>"intergate news groups" <
djraher@intergate.com
> wrote:
>>
>>>I just found two power monitoring devices, one for the main power meter
>>>and
>>>one portable, that look really good. The one for the main power meter
> clamps
>>>the detector/transmitter to the glass cover of the meter and sends the
>>>information to the display inside the house. The portable unit has peak
>>>reading feature that others have mentioned as being useful. It also has a
>>>function to log the amount of time a device draws more then a set amount
>>>of
>>>power. You could track the time a refrigerator compressor is running for
>>>an
>>>example. Now if the main power meter transmission could be captured for
>>>the
>>>HA system all sorts of things are possible. Take a look at:
>>>
>>>www.powercostmonitor.com
>>>
>>>Dennis
>>
>>You'll catch less flak from self-appointed moderators if you search the
>>group before posting with wide-eyed exuberance.
>>
>>Watts Up has been around for 3-4 years. It and other power meters have
>>been
>>discussed here. IMO, it's a bit pricey - you're paying $100 for the RS232
>>(now USB) interface as compared to the Kill A Watt (previously mentioned
>>in
>>the reefer madness thread) which can measure the same things (with better
>>accuracy unless the new USB model of Watts Up has improved on accuracy).
>
> ROTFL. The Watts Up was first mention in this newsgroup in 1998! So was
> it
> Dave Houston "posting with wide-eyed exuberance" "3-4 years ago" and
> ~five
> years after it was first discussed here ? ;-) The Watts Up was initially
> tested marketed in 1992 and was available on-line at retail by at least
> 1998.
> Dennis, you might also check out the web site of long-time
> comp.home.participant who has implemented some interesting and useful DIY
> power monitoring See Ed Cheung's site at:
>
http://www.edcheung.com/automa/power.htm
Requires soldering skills, but
> might provide some ideas.
>
> ... Marc
> Marc_F_Hult
>
www.ECONtrol.org

[David White]

I have a Kill-A-Watt and like it but it does NOT retain any peak
readings and I wish it did. Not enough to toss it and spend more $ though.

Don't take anyone's slamming too much to heart. There are just some
people who don't have enough tolerance to be on the web. It is so easy
for most of us to simply ignore a post of no interest/value to us. But
this sort feels hell-bound and determined that all should conform to
their own image. Beware orthodoxy in all its forms and ignore those who
would seek to burn you on the fires of their inquisition (unless you can
actually feel the heat - then run).

intergate news groups wrote:
> Mark,
> Thanks for the related links. I was more then just a little surprised at the
> holier then thou reaction to my post. I thought sharing both ideas and
> information on interesting related products was exactly what the group was
> all about. I remembered seeing several posts requesting information on how
> to monitor the main power meter, as well as posts mentioning a desire to be
> able to monitor peak power usage, which I didn't think the kill a watt meter
> would do. Here I thought I was simply passing along some useful information
> I ran accrossed,
> only to get slammed as a spammer. I also wonder how many posters search the
> group each time before posting a question or comment. I can personally
> remember seeing dozens of messages that would fail this criteria, and I for
> one would not slam them for it. We are supposed to be helping each other,
> aren't we??
> Dennis
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark_F_Hult" <
> MFHult@nothydrologistnot.com
> Newsgroups: comp.home.automation
> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 6:06 PM
> Subject: Re: Power monitoring device
>> On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 18:20:56 GMT,
> nobody@whocares.com
> (Dave Houston) wrot
>> e in
>> message <
> 45d744f0.69684750@nntp.fuse.net
>> :
>>
>>> "intergate news groups" <
> djraher@intergate.com
>> wrote:
>>>> I just found two power monitoring devices, one for the main power meter
>>>> and
>>>> one portable, that look really good. The one for the main power meter
>> clamps
>>>> the detector/transmitter to the glass cover of the meter and sends the
>>>> information to the display inside the house. The portable unit has peak
>>>> reading feature that others have mentioned as being useful. It also has a
>>>> function to log the amount of time a device draws more then a set amount
>>>> of
>>>> power. You could track the time a refrigerator compressor is running for
>>>> an
>>>> example. Now if the main power meter transmission could be captured for
>>>> the
>>>> HA system all sorts of things are possible. Take a look at:
>>>>
>>>> www.powercostmonitor.com
>>>>
>>>> Dennis
>>> You'll catch less flak from self-appointed moderators if you search the
>>> group before posting with wide-eyed exuberance.
>>>
>>> Watts Up has been around for 3-4 years. It and other power meters have
>>> been
>>> discussed here. IMO, it's a bit pricey - you're paying $100 for the RS232
>>> (now USB) interface as compared to the Kill A Watt (previously mentioned
>>> in
>>> the reefer madness thread) which can measure the same things (with better
>>> accuracy unless the new USB model of Watts Up has improved on accuracy).
>> ROTFL. The Watts Up was first mention in this newsgroup in 1998! So was
>> it
>> Dave Houston "posting with wide-eyed exuberance" "3-4 years ago" and
>> ~five
>> years after it was first discussed here ? ;-) The Watts Up was initially
>> tested marketed in 1992 and was available on-line at retail by at least
>> 1998.
>> Dennis, you might also check out the web site of long-time
>> comp.home.participant who has implemented some interesting and useful DIY
>> power monitoring See Ed Cheung's site at:
>>
> http://www.edcheung.com/automa/power.htm
> Requires soldering skills, but
>> might provide some ideas.
>>
>> ... Marc
>> Marc_F_Hult
>>
> www.ECONtrol.org
>
>

[Marc_F_Hult]

Hi Dennis,

Yes, we are trying to be helpful.

I am reminded of an old joke about the dour and dull Drill Instructor whose
job it was to get new recruits off the bus and into the processing building.

"Off the bus. Turn Right. Follow blue line to blue door"
"Off the bus. Turn Right. Follow blue line to blue door"
"Off the bus. Turn Right. Follow blue line to blue door"
and so on.

After a few dozen busloads he whines, "I keep telling them but they don't
never larn".

As you may have found, there are several problems with searching the
newsgroups for prior answers. You bumped into the 'territory' of one of the
frequent posters who thinks 'the world begins' when he first becomes aware of
something.

One of my pet peeves are the regulars who post something that they
subsequently realize is [choose a polite descriptor] and then don't correct
the record. They do us all a disservice by polluting the record. Sometimes
too there are changes and improvements. The silliness over the compact
fluorescent lamp (CFL) discussion is a good example. Folks who painted
themselves into a corner years ago with ill-advised pronouncements keep
trying to defend an outdated position by referring to circumstances of 30
years ago as if they were today's reality.

So ask away. You will find that even the brusque have useful things to say if
you learn how to filter out self-important posturing.

(The spammer thing is different issue. Some folks have a low threshold for
those that would use comp.home.automation for commercial purposes contrary to
the newsgroup's charter. It's easy to react too quickly. This too will pass
quickly.)

HTH ...Marc
Marc_F_Hult
www.ECOntrol.org


Tue, 20 Feb 2007 20:03:42 -0500, "intergate news groups"
<djraher@intergate.com> wrote in message
<12tn6jb984epcec@corp.supernews.com>:

>Mark,
>Thanks for the related links. I was more then just a little surprised at the
>holier then thou reaction to my post. I thought sharing both ideas and
>information on interesting related products was exactly what the group was
>all about. I remembered seeing several posts requesting information on how
>to monitor the main power meter, as well as posts mentioning a desire to be
>able to monitor peak power usage, which I didn't think the kill a watt meter
>would do. Here I thought I was simply passing along some useful information
>I ran accrossed,
>only to get slammed as a spammer. I also wonder how many posters search the
>group each time before posting a question or comment. I can personally
>remember seeing dozens of messages that would fail this criteria, and I for
>one would not slam them for it. We are supposed to be helping each other,
>aren't we??
>Dennis
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mark_F_Hult" <
>MFHult@nothydrologistnot.com
>>
>Newsgroups: comp.home.automation
>Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 6:06 PM
>Subject: Re: Power monitoring device
>> On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 18:20:56 GMT,
>nobody@whocares.com
> (Dave Houston) wrot
>> e in
>> message <
>45d744f0.69684750@nntp.fuse.net
>>:
>>
>>>"intergate news groups" <
>djraher@intergate.com
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I just found two power monitoring devices, one for the main power meter
>>>>and
>>>>one portable, that look really good. The one for the main power meter
>> clamps
>>>>the detector/transmitter to the glass cover of the meter and sends the
>>>>information to the display inside the house. The portable unit has peak
>>>>reading feature that others have mentioned as being useful. It also has a
>>>>function to log the amount of time a device draws more then a set amount
>>>>of
>>>>power. You could track the time a refrigerator compressor is running for
>>>>an
>>>>example. Now if the main power meter transmission could be captured for
>>>>the
>>>>HA system all sorts of things are possible. Take a look at:
>>>>
>>>>www.powercostmonitor.com
>>>>
>>>>Dennis
>>>
>>>You'll catch less flak from self-appointed moderators if you search the
>>>group before posting with wide-eyed exuberance.
>>>
>>>Watts Up has been around for 3-4 years. It and other power meters have
>>>been
>>>discussed here. IMO, it's a bit pricey - you're paying $100 for the RS232
>>>(now USB) interface as compared to the Kill A Watt (previously mentioned
>>>in
>>>the reefer madness thread) which can measure the same things (with better
>>>accuracy unless the new USB model of Watts Up has improved on accuracy).
>>
>> ROTFL. The Watts Up was first mention in this newsgroup in 1998! So was
>> it
>> Dave Houston "posting with wide-eyed exuberance" "3-4 years ago" and
>> ~five
>> years after it was first discussed here ? ;-) The Watts Up was initially
>> tested marketed in 1992 and was available on-line at retail by at least
>> 1998.
>> Dennis, you might also check out the web site of long-time
>> comp.home.participant who has implemented some interesting and useful DIY
>> power monitoring See Ed Cheung's site at:
>>
>http://www.edcheung.com/automa/power.htm
> Requires soldering skills, but
>> might provide some ideas.
>>
>> ... Marc
>> Marc_F_Hult
>>
>www.ECONtrol.org
>

[Robert Green]

"David White" <whitedavidp@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:PLmdnYgofq5vLkbYnZ2dnUVZ_v-tnZ2d@comcast.com...
> I have a Kill-A-Watt and like it but it does NOT retain any peak
> readings and I wish it did. Not enough to toss it and spend more $ though.

That *is* a major flaw in what otherwise is a very nice piece of HW for very
little $. Hopefully, someday all devices likes this will come with some
sort of output port for logging purposes.

I wanted something a little more useful so I took a heavy duty extension
cord and "unzipped" it so that I can wrap a few turns of wire around one
conductor and feed it into a RatShack multimeter with a PC serial port.
That way, I should be able to
correlate the KAW's readout with what I see on the meter's LCD. Assuming
the extrapolation to be relatively linear, I should be able to monitor usage
over a long period of time. My refrigerator clearly draws very different
amounts of power at different times of the day. Electrical use appears to
be very tightly related to the room temperature and the number of closings
and openings per day.

I still won't be able to capture peak loading, but I will be able to
determine, for example, how much opening and closing a refrigerator door
contributes to the overall electrical usage. Of course, I'll have to log
the openings and closings, but that's pretty easy to do
with an old laptop running Activehome and a Hawkeye mounted inside the
reefer. Whenever it's opened, it sends a signal. Hmmm. That sounds like
a good way to test for open door events that last longer than X seconds as
yet another way to detect imminent coil freezeups. If the dawn/dusk sensor
sees too much dawn, the door must be open. With the dogs getting smarter
every day, that may be a very useful sensor indeed! I'll either have to
hardwire it to a 3VDC supply or load it with lithium batteries to work
reliably in the cold. I'll also have to mount a TM-751 nearby since the
refrigerator walls will act as a Faraday cage and limit transmission range.


Now all I have to do is to assemble all the gear, get it downstairs and hook
it up. I've been casually monitoring the unit with the KAW but it's been SO
abnormally cold here I am afraid the readings won't be meaningful. These HA
projects always seem to stretch out a lot longer than I think they will.

> Don't take anyone's slamming too much to heart. There are just some
> people who don't have enough tolerance to be on the web. It is so easy
> for most of us to simply ignore a post of no interest/value to us.

Good advice, David. After a while, you even learn to ignore the posts that
may have some interest or value if they turn out to be vehicles for
someone's bitch fight. That's pretty sad, but it seems the only way to
encourage people to behave as if they are in a friend's living room. Of
course, some people will *never* get it. I wince every time I think of the
newbies to HA that post here, get caught up in some bad blood that's been
going on for years and are never heard from again. It's almost the rule
now, instead of the exception. :-( I've had more than a couple of threads
I've started get "hijacked" by one set of long standing grudge matches or
another.

> But this sort feels hell-bound and determined that all should conform to
> their own image.

It's worse than that, I fear. Some people just like to fight and no amount
of cajoling, bribing, group embarrassment or any other "technique" is going
to break them of the habit. The exchanges will always be of the sort:

Q. Why is the sky blue?

A. Because Joe S. Ragman is a moron.

Q. How do I turn on a light remotely?

A. You wouldn't have to if Joe S. Ragman hadn't thoughtlessly turned it off.
What a maroon! if Joe S. Ragman says POTAYTO, you can be sure it's really
POTAHTO!!!!"

> Beware orthodoxy in all its forms and ignore those who
> would seek to burn you on the fires of their inquisition (unless you can
> actually feel the heat - then run).

Reminds me of the guy who fixed the annual cockroach race by preheating the
plate the bug had to race across. It really *flew* when it sensed the heat.

I mostly ignore the big, flaming hunks of flamebait that are frequently
tossed out into the group unless I absolutely need the information that
might be lurking behind the ire. That makes it worth the potential singe
marks. I'm also far less likely to spend time replying to someone who seems
to be a sock puppet of one of the "usual suspects." Lately a lot of CHA
posts have come from people who have suddenly appeared on Usenet for the
very first time but seem quite net-savvy. Very suspicious. While the
protagonists take great care to assure us the flaming is for the good of the
group, most people know that's just not true. It's just ego-tripping with a
side-order of rationalization.

--
Bobby G.