Battery Backup Failing

[gkamieneski@hotmail.com]

After the ice storms and outages my X10 Protector Plus security console
battery low indicator came on (powered the unit for probably 4 total
hours). When I replaced the 9v the light continued to be on. Looks
like a wiring problem from the battery harness or else a surge fried
the battery backup part of the unit. All other features appear
functional.

Any ideas as to what I should look for? Anything I can do with a
multimeter and the battery leads? I'm getting 9.5volts out of the
battery, but I would have to "snap" the unit apart to check if the
wires have come loose.

[Pop`]

gkamieneski@hotmail.com wrote:
> After the ice storms and outages my X10 Protector Plus security
> console battery low indicator came on (powered the unit for probably
> 4 total hours). When I replaced the 9v the light continued to be on.
> Looks like a wiring problem from the battery harness or else a surge
> fried the battery backup part of the unit. All other features appear
> functional.
>
> Any ideas as to what I should look for? Anything I can do with a
> multimeter and the battery leads? I'm getting 9.5volts out of the
> battery, but I would have to "snap" the unit apart to check if the
> wires have come loose.

Check for current flow; none = no connection.

[Robert Green]

Pardon me if you know this already but are you sure it's not reporting that
a remote sensor has a low battery condition?

I'd bet that: ice storms + alkaline batteries = low voltage being reported
that could easily disappear when it warms up some. Alkalines perform poorly
in very cold weather.

http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Identifying_and_Fixing_Low_Battery_Warnings

says the following:

"The five beeps you hear from your security console are a low battery
indication. If a zone light is flashing, change the batteries in that
sensor. If no zone lights flash, replace the battery in the console."

If the beeping continues, try pulling the backup battery again and leaving
the console powered down for 10 minutes before resetting the console.

--
Bobby G.

<gkamieneski@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1169004771.854589.109390@38g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> After the ice storms and outages my X10 Protector Plus security console
> battery low indicator came on (powered the unit for probably 4 total
> hours). When I replaced the 9v the light continued to be on. Looks
> like a wiring problem from the battery harness or else a surge fried
> the battery backup part of the unit. All other features appear
> functional.
>
> Any ideas as to what I should look for? Anything I can do with a
> multimeter and the battery leads? I'm getting 9.5volts out of the
> battery, but I would have to "snap" the unit apart to check if the
> wires have come loose.
>

[gkamieneski@hotmail.com]

Robert Green wrote:
> Pardon me if you know this already but are you sure it's not reporting that
> a remote sensor has a low battery condition?
>
> I'd bet that: ice storms + alkaline batteries = low voltage being reported
> that could easily disappear when it warms up some. Alkalines perform poorly
> in very cold weather.
>
> http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Identifying_and_Fixing_Low_Battery_Warnings
>
> says the following:
>
> "The five beeps you hear from your security console are a low battery
> indication. If a zone light is flashing, change the batteries in that
> sensor. If no zone lights flash, replace the battery in the console."
>
> If the beeping continues, try pulling the backup battery again and leaving
> the console powered down for 10 minutes before resetting the console.
>
> --
> Bobby G.
>
> <gkamieneski@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1169004771.854589.109390@38g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> > After the ice storms and outages my X10 Protector Plus security console
> > battery low indicator came on (powered the unit for probably 4 total
> > hours). When I replaced the 9v the light continued to be on. Looks
> > like a wiring problem from the battery harness or else a surge fried
> > the battery backup part of the unit. All other features appear
> > functional.
> >
> > Any ideas as to what I should look for? Anything I can do with a
> > multimeter and the battery leads? I'm getting 9.5volts out of the
> > battery, but I would have to "snap" the unit apart to check if the
> > wires have come loose.
> >

No, it's definitely the light that indicates that the 9v battery that
keeps the zones and devices straight on the console is running low.
This is an indoor unit and the batteries are measuring 9.5v across the
harness.

[Robert Green]

<gkamieneski@hotmail.com> wrote in message

<stuff snipped>

> No, it's definitely the light that indicates that the 9v battery that
> keeps the zones and devices straight on the console is running low.
> This is an indoor unit and the batteries are measuring 9.5v across the
> harness.

Are you measuring the battery voltage "in circuit" with the unit powered up?

I would suggest unplugging the unit with the battery out, letting it sit for
10 minutes and restarting it. I imagine you're trying to avoid that so as
not to lose your setup but reading further on the net it seems this unit can
get into an "indeterminate" state after being subjected to powerline
"blips." That's a fairly common failure mode for X-10. I have a minitimer
that has exactly the same symptoms. Reports "low battery" but battery
voltage is 9v+ and drains over time. Configuration data is held during
power outtages.

I feel your pain if that's the only solution because it's no fun registering
the sensors all over again. A battery backup is supposed to save
configuration data, not force you to purge it to restore proper functioning.

As someone else suggested, it would be helpful to know if the unit is
drawing any current from the battery using some jumpers and a meter that can
measure microamps. You might find living with a bum warning light
preferable to re-registering all your sensors if you knew the backup was
really working and it was just indicator error.

How old are the batteries in your sensors? It's conceivable it was trying
to send a low battery signal from a zone that got flagged as a low voltage
console battery due to a power blip.

You say you replaced the 9v battery. Did you mean you pulled the old
battery and tossed it or put it back in? If you tossed it, was it low?

--
Bobby G.

[gkamieneski@hotmail.com]

Robert Green wrote:
> <gkamieneski@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> <stuff snipped>
>
> > No, it's definitely the light that indicates that the 9v battery that
> > keeps the zones and devices straight on the console is running low.
> > This is an indoor unit and the batteries are measuring 9.5v across the
> > harness.
>
> Are you measuring the battery voltage "in circuit" with the unit powered up?

Yes, with AC power to the unit and the battery installed, I measured
9.5v across the terminals of the battery harness. Not experienced with
the multimeter, but if there was a test I could do on the harness that
attaches to the 9v, it would save me opening up the unit to look for
detached wires (a possibility).
>
> I would suggest unplugging the unit with the battery out, letting it sit for
> 10 minutes and restarting it. I imagine you're trying to avoid that so as
> not to lose your setup but reading further on the net it seems this unit can
> get into an "indeterminate" state after being subjected to powerline
> "blips." That's a fairly common failure mode for X-10. I have a minitimer
> that has exactly the same symptoms. Reports "low battery" but battery
> voltage is 9v+ and drains over time. Configuration data is held during
> power outtages.
>
> I feel your pain if that's the only solution because it's no fun registering
> the sensors all over again. A battery backup is supposed to save
> configuration data, not force you to purge it to restore proper functioning.
>
> As someone else suggested, it would be helpful to know if the unit is
> drawing any current from the battery using some jumpers and a meter that can
> measure microamps. You might find living with a bum warning light
> preferable to re-registering all your sensors if you knew the backup was
> really working and it was just indicator error.
>
> How old are the batteries in your sensors? It's conceivable it was trying
> to send a low battery signal from a zone that got flagged as a low voltage
> console battery due to a power blip.
>
> You say you replaced the 9v battery. Did you mean you pulled the old
> battery and tossed it or put it back in? If you tossed it, was it low?

Tossed battery and installed a fresh one. I don't really mind re
registering all of the zones and controls, so I will shut everything
down and start over.
>
> --
> Bobby G.

[gkamieneski@hotmail.com]

gkamieneski@hotmail.com wrote:
> Robert Green wrote:
> > <gkamieneski@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >
> > <stuff snipped>
> >
> > > No, it's definitely the light that indicates that the 9v battery that
> > > keeps the zones and devices straight on the console is running low.
> > > This is an indoor unit and the batteries are measuring 9.5v across the
> > > harness.
> >
> > Are you measuring the battery voltage "in circuit" with the unit powered up?
>
> Yes, with AC power to the unit and the battery installed, I measured
> 9.5v across the terminals of the battery harness. Not experienced with
> the multimeter, but if there was a test I could do on the harness that
> attaches to the 9v, it would save me opening up the unit to look for
> detached wires (a possibility).
> >
> > I would suggest unplugging the unit with the battery out, letting it sit for
> > 10 minutes and restarting it. I imagine you're trying to avoid that so as
> > not to lose your setup but reading further on the net it seems this unit can
> > get into an "indeterminate" state after being subjected to powerline
> > "blips." That's a fairly common failure mode for X-10. I have a minitimer
> > that has exactly the same symptoms. Reports "low battery" but battery
> > voltage is 9v+ and drains over time. Configuration data is held during
> > power outtages.
> >
> > I feel your pain if that's the only solution because it's no fun registering
> > the sensors all over again. A battery backup is supposed to save
> > configuration data, not force you to purge it to restore proper functioning.
> >
> > As someone else suggested, it would be helpful to know if the unit is
> > drawing any current from the battery using some jumpers and a meter that can
> > measure microamps. You might find living with a bum warning light
> > preferable to re-registering all your sensors if you knew the backup was
> > really working and it was just indicator error.
> >
> > How old are the batteries in your sensors? It's conceivable it was trying
> > to send a low battery signal from a zone that got flagged as a low voltage
> > console battery due to a power blip.
> >
> > You say you replaced the 9v battery. Did you mean you pulled the old
> > battery and tossed it or put it back in? If you tossed it, was it low?
>
> Tossed battery and installed a fresh one. I don't really mind re
> registering all of the zones and controls, so I will shut everything
> down and start over.
> >
> > --
> > Bobby G.

Left the battery out and the X10 Protector Plus console unplugged for
an hour. Unfortunately, as soon as I brought it back online, it
stopped recognizing the 9v battery. Guess I'll have to tear it apart
to review the battery harness connections.

[Got Chalk]

On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:39:01 -0500, Robert Green wrote:
> If a zone light is flashing, change the batteries in that
> sensor. If no zone lights flash, replace the battery in the console."

What's a zone light?

[Robert Green]

<gkamieneski@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1169562149.978411.311960@q2g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
>
> gkamieneski@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Robert Green wrote:
> > > <gkamieneski@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > >
> > > <stuff snipped>
> > >
> > > > No, it's definitely the light that indicates that the 9v battery
that
> > > > keeps the zones and devices straight on the console is running low.
> > > > This is an indoor unit and the batteries are measuring 9.5v across
the
> > > > harness.
> > >
> > > Are you measuring the battery voltage "in circuit" with the unit
powered up?
> >
> > Yes, with AC power to the unit and the battery installed, I measured
> > 9.5v across the terminals of the battery harness. Not experienced with
> > the multimeter, but if there was a test I could do on the harness that
> > attaches to the 9v, it would save me opening up the unit to look for
> > detached wires (a possibility).
> > >
> > > I would suggest unplugging the unit with the battery out, letting it
sit for
> > > 10 minutes and restarting it. I imagine you're trying to avoid that
so as
> > > not to lose your setup but reading further on the net it seems this
unit can
> > > get into an "indeterminate" state after being subjected to powerline
> > > "blips." That's a fairly common failure mode for X-10. I have a
minitimer
> > > that has exactly the same symptoms. Reports "low battery" but battery
> > > voltage is 9v+ and drains over time. Configuration data is held
during
> > > power outtages.
> > >
> > > I feel your pain if that's the only solution because it's no fun
registering
> > > the sensors all over again. A battery backup is supposed to save
> > > configuration data, not force you to purge it to restore proper
functioning.
> > >
> > > As someone else suggested, it would be helpful to know if the unit is
> > > drawing any current from the battery using some jumpers and a meter
that can
> > > measure microamps. You might find living with a bum warning light
> > > preferable to re-registering all your sensors if you knew the backup
was
> > > really working and it was just indicator error.
> > >
> > > How old are the batteries in your sensors? It's conceivable it was
trying
> > > to send a low battery signal from a zone that got flagged as a low
voltage
> > > console battery due to a power blip.
> > >
> > > You say you replaced the 9v battery. Did you mean you pulled the old
> > > battery and tossed it or put it back in? If you tossed it, was it
low?
> >
> > Tossed battery and installed a fresh one. I don't really mind re
> > registering all of the zones and controls, so I will shut everything
> > down and start over.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Bobby G.
>
> Left the battery out and the X10 Protector Plus console unplugged for
> an hour. Unfortunately, as soon as I brought it back online, it
> stopped recognizing the 9v battery. Guess I'll have to tear it apart
> to review the battery harness connections.

My next "best guess" is that during the storm and the powerblips you got a
surge of some sort that popped something on the board. I'd very much doubt
if it's the battery harness wires - more likely to be components involved in
detecting line voltage and switching in the battery when 110VAC is absent.
The battery harness wires usually fail during battery replacement time when
you remove the old battery and pull on the harness and the snap connector.
I've had 9v connectors break at the middle so it might be something to
check. It doesn't seem likely in your case, though, because the light came
on long before you fiddled with the battery.

--
Bobby G.

[gkamieneski@hotmail.com]

On Jan 24, 8:07 am, "Robert Green" <ROBERT_GREEN1...@YAH00.COM> wrote:
> <gkamiene...@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1169562149.978411.311960@q2g2000cwa.go oglegroups.com...
> My next "best guess" is that during the storm and the powerblips you got a
> surge of some sort that popped something on the board. I'd very much doubt
> if it's the battery harness wires - more likely to be components involved in
> detecting line voltage and switching in the battery when 110VAC is absent.
> The battery harness wires usually fail during battery replacement time when
> you remove the old battery and pull on the harness and the snap connector.
> I've had 9v connectors break at the middle so it might be something to
> check. It doesn't seem likely in your case, though, because the light came
> on long before you fiddled with the battery.
>
> --
> Bobby G.

My fault for not testing the old battery before throwing it away. I
had thought that the 9v had drained "normally" during the ice storm
power outages, whereas in reality the low battery light may have come
on from system board damage. Had I tested the suspect battery (because
the low batt light was on) rather than just blindly replace it, and had
it tested positively, that would have told me that the problem was with
the console's electronics.

[Robert Green]

<gkamieneski@hotmail.com> wrote in message

> > My next "best guess" is that during the storm and the powerblips you got
a
> > surge of some sort that popped something on the board. I'd very much
doubt
> > if it's the battery harness wires - more likely to be components
involved in
> > detecting line voltage and switching in the battery when 110VAC is
absent.
> > The battery harness wires usually fail during battery replacement time
when
> > you remove the old battery and pull on the harness and the snap
connector.
> > I've had 9v connectors break at the middle so it might be something to
> > check. It doesn't seem likely in your case, though, because the light
came
> > on long before you fiddled with the battery.
> >
> > --
> > Bobby G.
>
> My fault for not testing the old battery before throwing it away. I
> had thought that the 9v had drained "normally" during the ice storm
> power outages, whereas in reality the low battery light may have come
> on from system board damage. Had I tested the suspect battery (because
> the low batt light was on) rather than just blindly replace it, and had
> it tested positively, that would have told me that the problem was with
> the console's electronics.

It's pretty easy to seize on the wrong suspect in the early part of an
investigation, whether it's an electronics problem or a murder case. I did
the same hunting down what I thought was a stuck transmitter button on a
Palmpad recently, only to find out it was the dread "endless dim" syndrome.
It was just as reasonable for you to assume that the battery had drained
normally as it was for me to assume I was seeing a repeat of something that
had already occurred several times before.

I read a recommendation, IIRC, of letting the alarm unit sit unplugged and
without a battery overnight if you want to be sure it resets. I'd try that
next as the easiest option to check. Bear in mind it's now possible for you
to actually have a harness problem even though initially it was just a reset
issue because you've tugged on the battery harness wires and snapped the 9
volt connector a few times. That's all it takes on some equipment,
especially the kind without adequate strain relief. Those kinds of
secondary, diagnostic-induced problems can drive someone crazy.

My real concern however is whether you can trust an alarm controller that's
been zapped hard enough to blow out the backup switchover circuit. I'd test
it *very* thoroughly once you got it back on line or look for sale on a new
one somewhere. It may have been the only circuit affected but probably not
.. . .

--
Bobby G.