I got my PJ - it raised questions.

[Clams Canino]

Hi All - me again - this time with a specific issue.

I got an Infocus Screen Play 4805 yesterday. It's native (and max)
resolution is: 854x480 or 16x9 or 1.78 to1 depending on phrasing it. So it's
basically set up for 16x9 widescreen. For now I'm testing it with a DVD
player, the HT-PC out of the loop so as not to complicate the matter.

What I've noted is that all my movies are 2.35 to 1. The promos and menus
all seem to be in 16x9 and then when it goes to the actual film - the
infamous black bars appear at the top and bottom. This is true for all my
DVD's except for "Bad Santa" which in fact is recorded in 16x9 (Good
Santa!).

Now the SP4805 projector has a "letterbox" mode, but lo and behold the
implimentation is messed up, and when I tell it to letterbox the black bars
go away, but instead of clipping a little off each side to get the picture
into 16x9, it instead insists on keeping all the information, so it squishes
the picture in there resulting in taller, skinnier people etc.

Question1: Has anyone else noticed this "feature" in the 4805?? Is it a
"bug" or did they wanna do it that way? WTF is up with that??

The second question might be more one of taste. Using the HT-PC, I can in
fact present a picture to the 4805 already letterboxed for 16x9 widesceen.
But what's "correct"? I'm not sure I remember movies always being 2.35-1 in
the first place? To me, 16 x 9 just "feels righter" or are all the theatres
today really showing in 2.35-1 and I'm the strange one?

The last question......... if you do letterbox a 2.35 to 1 movie into a 16x9
(1.77-1) screen, that means you need to clip .29 off each side of the
picture. Is the information in that area worth losing to get rid of the
black bars? Or is the percieved width better for immersion than the
percieved height???

I'd love to hear comments on this.... Ya, I keep looking at it both ways. I
*think* I'd rather chop a little info off the sides to use the full height
of my 16x9 PJ. But I'm curious what the masses think.

I'll note that I'm not "offended" by the black bars, (I can cure those with
Velcro) so much as I think I can gain more immersion with the extra height
of using the whole available screen.

What say the gallery??

-Wayne

[Lucas Tam]

"Clams Canino" <nowayhose@nospam.net> wrote in
news:3eQMd.346$wK.215@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink .net:

> The last question......... if you do letterbox a 2.35 to 1 movie into
> a 16x9 (1.77-1) screen, that means you need to clip .29 off each side
> of the picture. Is the information in that area worth losing to get
> rid of the black bars?

Do you watch Pan and Scan? ; )

You can buy a motorized matte or perhaps have adjustable mattes to block
out the black bars.

--
Lucas Tam (REMOVEnntp@rogers.com)
Please delete "REMOVE" from the e-mail address when replying.
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/coolspot18/

[Karyudo]

On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 19:41:51 GMT, "Clams Canino"
<nowayhose@nospam.net> wrote:

>What say the gallery??

Speaking only to the issue of aspect ratios, I'd say you should
probably do some reading up on the idea of original aspect ratio, or
OAR. What you'll learn pretty quickly is that almost no movies are
ever 16:9 -- rather, most (new) films are 1.85:1 or 2.35:1. Both of
those ratios are slightly wider than 16:9, so both should correctly
have black bars when projected. Short of having to buy different
projectors for each aspect ratio, this is a good compromise and a
necessary evil. You may not notice the changing aspect ratio at the
cinema, because most theatres have moving curtains to mask the screen
to the correct shape.

I doubt you'll find all that many people posting here who would
support your plan to crop off part of the picture to use more of your
projector's pixels. Personally, I think that's vaguely moronic (not
you personally; the concept in general): you've gone to the trouble to
buy an excellent projector, and in DVD you are able to buy (for the
first time in home entertainment history) a version that's not only
got high-quality picture and sound, but is presented in the same
aspect ratio as you remember from the cinema, and you want to neuter
that to some extent by lopping off part of the picture again? Hmm...

Here's my suggestion:

Pick a set number of movies (say, 10?), and watch them all at their
correct OAR, black bars be damned. Watch the *movie*, not the bars.
Notice how many times (especially in 2.35:1 titles) there is something
interesting going on at the extreme right or left edge of the screen.
Better still, notice how many times there is something interesting
going on at the extreme right AND left edge of the screen! This is
what you'll be missing by cropping. Not every scene will be affected,
but a surprising proportion are.

If you're anything like me (and perhaps the silent majority here?),
you'll soon find you can completely ignore the black bars, and just
watch the movie. You may also notice that if or when you later see a
cropped version of a show or movie, you can tell that something is
missing, just by the composition of what's left. I find cropped
material terribly claustrophobic, like everything's way too crowded
in. Well, duh, since it really is!

I think your plan to get some masking (in velvet or something?) is a
good one. You can pretty much banish the black bars from the white
portion of your screen. Just like in a real cinema...

Finally, I've been told I sound like a dick in some of my posts, so
please don't take anything I write too personally. I just like to
shake my virtual head in incomprehension at this strange obsession of
North Americans to want to light up every last pixel of their displays
all the time. The rest of the (better-educated?) civilized world just
watches the movie the way the director intended -- no angst or
confusion about what the hell to do about black bars. The correct
answer is "appreciate why they're there, and then ignore them."

[azzure@olypen.com]

Well -

It sounds like it's working as it's supposed to.

Were you expecting the 2.35 shape to fit into the 1.77 (16:9) shape w/o
black bars?

The tall, skinny people are because you aren't applying the anamorphic
squeeze in letterbox mode. Some DVDs aren't enhanced and this mode is
for those DVDs.

I have the X1 - we have 16:9, 4:3 and Native to choose from. I won't go
into what they do but there are always new PJers who are confused at
first and they post to AVSFORUM.com I recommend the same to you.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&forumid=68&x=6&y=6

Also: the best PQ results from setting one's DVD player set to 16:9 and
changing ARs with the PJ. With an HTPC this is not so, of course.
There is an excellent HTPC forum at AVS also.

BTW: I use Velcro (male side) lined vertical edges of the screen to
attach Matte Black Felt strips to. The Felt acts like the Female side
of Velcro and holds well. One side of the Felt always seems to hold
better than the other, however. I've been using this method since July
2003 and it still does an excellent job of masking each aspect ratioed
film. Each film is surrounded by darkness. (We have 100% light control
in our HT.)
I like having a 4:3 PJ because I can see each different AR at its best.
Although the 4805 is a better PJ and I would not turn down a trade. ;)

Here is a link to a posting on AVS a year ago explaining my screen and
masking method.
http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=4a548038f4153d6b5aff8d2438665c79&postid=3619559

Good luck

[Clams Canino]

Thanks for the responces, it helped put everything into "perspective" heh.

I'm over the spect ratio thing...... the next issue is screen selection and
an HT PC issue.

I'll try AVS for the HTPC one. The screen - we'll see if it's really a
question yet. :)

-W