speaker wire

[Jim Johnson]

Hi everyone,

This is probably a dumb question, but I've wondered about it. I've heard
that for longer runs to use a heavier gage speaker wire (etc to rear
speakers), but does it matter if you mix them. My fronts aren't far from my
receiver so I don't need a heave gage for them I guess. I guess what I want
to ask is if I use a lighter gage wire for the fronts and a heavier gage for
the rears (mixed) does this affect the amp's performance in any way. Should
I just use the same gage for all (heavier gage). Thanks for your help.

Jim

[Rich Clark]

"Jim Johnson" <dogman56@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1106p5be4jnd635@corp.supernews.com...
> Hi everyone,
>
> This is probably a dumb question, but I've wondered about it. I've heard
> that for longer runs to use a heavier gage speaker wire (etc to rear
> speakers), but does it matter if you mix them. My fronts aren't far from
> my receiver so I don't need a heave gage for them I guess. I guess what I
> want to ask is if I use a lighter gage wire for the fronts and a heavier
> gage for the rears (mixed) does this affect the amp's performance in any
> way. Should I just use the same gage for all (heavier gage). Thanks for
> your help.


Using wire that's too light can adversely affect the sound. Using wire
that's heavier than necessary will not.

So you're right that if all the wire is sufficient, then it doesn't matter
if some of it is more than sufficient.

It's the rare home system that needs heavier than 14-gauge wire.

RichC

I prefer twelve gauge for the fronts and use 16 for everything else.
If anything you have it backwards, the fronts and center will need the
larger guage because of higher power signals . The speakers in the back just
arent called on as much
"Jim Johnson" <dogman56@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1106p5be4jnd635@corp.supernews.com...
> Hi everyone,
>
> This is probably a dumb question, but I've wondered about it. I've heard
> that for longer runs to use a heavier gage speaker wire (etc to rear
> speakers), but does it matter if you mix them. My fronts aren't far from
my
> receiver so I don't need a heave gage for them I guess. I guess what I
want
> to ask is if I use a lighter gage wire for the fronts and a heavier gage
for
> the rears (mixed) does this affect the amp's performance in any way.
Should
> I just use the same gage for all (heavier gage). Thanks for your help.
>
> Jim
>
>

[Jack Dotson]

<steve99@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:kCgNd.33496$t67.7537@bignews5.bellsouth.net.. .
>I prefer twelve gauge for the fronts and use 16 for everything else.
> If anything you have it backwards, the fronts and center will need the
> larger guage because of higher power signals . The speakers in the back
> just
> arent called on as much
> "Jim Johnson" <dogman56@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:1106p5be4jnd635@corp.supernews.com...

Wrong answer again! The guage of speaker wire you need will depend on the
length of the cable. The longer the run, the bigger (lower guage) the cable
will need to be. You had it right from the get go. Keep the length of your
left and right front speakers the same, even if they are set-up at unequal
distance and use the same guage. I actually use a sepcialty cable for my
L/R fronts and center and 12 guage zip coord on my rears.

>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> This is probably a dumb question, but I've wondered about it. I've heard
>> that for longer runs to use a heavier gage speaker wire (etc to rear
>> speakers), but does it matter if you mix them. My fronts aren't far from
> my
>> receiver so I don't need a heave gage for them I guess. I guess what I
> want
>> to ask is if I use a lighter gage wire for the fronts and a heavier gage
> for
>> the rears (mixed) does this affect the amp's performance in any way.
> Should
>> I just use the same gage for all (heavier gage). Thanks for your help.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>
>

[C what I mean]

"Jack Dotson" <jdotson@stx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:fIqNd.13442$sr1.11777@fe2.texas.rr.com...
>
> <steve99@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:kCgNd.33496$t67.7537@bignews5.bellsouth.net.. .
>>I prefer twelve gauge for the fronts and use 16 for everything else.
>> If anything you have it backwards, the fronts and center will need the
>> larger guage because of higher power signals . The speakers in the back
>> just
>> arent called on as much
>> "Jim Johnson" <dogman56@msn.com> wrote in message
>> news:1106p5be4jnd635@corp.supernews.com...
>
> Wrong answer again! The guage of speaker wire you need will depend on the
> length of the cable. The longer the run, the bigger (lower guage) the
> cable will need to be. You had it right from the get go. Keep the length
> of your left and right front speakers the same, even if they are set-up at
> unequal distance and use the same guage. I actually use a sepcialty cable
> for my L/R fronts and center and 12 guage zip coord on my rears.
>
>snip<

Why would you use a "specialty cable" on your front speakers? What is
special about them other then the price I am sure you must have paid? (real
question, not being a smart ass)

Also, the different propagation delays from R/L speaker cable lengths would
be pretty much impossible to hear. Besides, if you sit two inches one way or
the other from center, the whole point becomes pretty moot. You will get
more delay differential from that distance then any speaker wires that are
cut at unequal lengths. (figure the speed of sound vs. the speed of
electrons)

Craig

[Rich Clark]

"C what I mean" <no spam@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:yMrNd.3811$wB3.2995@news02.roc.ny...

> Also, the different propagation delays from R/L speaker cable lengths
> would be pretty much impossible to hear. Besides, if you sit two inches
> one way or the other from center, the whole point becomes pretty moot.
> You will get more delay differential from that distance then any speaker
> wires that are cut at unequal lengths. (figure the speed of sound vs. the
> speed of electrons)

There's no such thing as "propagation delay" in speaker wiring, which may be
what you meant to say.

The reasons to be concerned about speaker wire are (1) to make sure that the
resistance doesn't drop enough to change the load on the amplifier, which
will have an effect on the sound and cause power to be dissipated in the
wire, and (2) to minimize adverse effects on the speaker/wire/amplifier
system's damping factor.* As long as the wire is sufficiently heavy to
prevent these problems, there is no further concern.

Since measuring this in the home is difficult, rules-of-thumb are needed.
That's the source of this entire discussion: what's the best rule of thumb.

Fortunately, all of this work has already been done, and the answer is
known. For runs of 50 feet or less, 14-gauge wire is sufficient to prevent
audible signal degradation in any home system. 50 feet of 14-gauge wire has
resistance of .25 ohms, which is not enough to have an effect on an
amplifier or cause audible loss of power, and a damping factor of 31, which
is sufficiently higher than the minimum desirable DF of 20 that the issue
stops being a concern.

So everybody go back to bed.

RichC

*Damping factor is the ability of the system to prevent the speaker
diaphragm moving after the signal stops.

[C what I mean]

"Rich Clark" <rdclark2SPAM@TRAPcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:TpWdnW-M0IRy_5vfRVn-tg@comcast.com...
>
> "C what I mean" <no spam@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
> news:yMrNd.3811$wB3.2995@news02.roc.ny...
>
>> Also, the different propagation delays from R/L speaker cable lengths
>> would be pretty much impossible to hear. Besides, if you sit two inches
>> one way or the other from center, the whole point becomes pretty moot.
>> You will get more delay differential from that distance then any speaker
>> wires that are cut at unequal lengths. (figure the speed of sound vs.
>> the speed of electrons)
>
> There's no such thing as "propagation delay" in speaker wiring, which may
> be what you meant to say.
>
You are corrrect for the most part. I was reading something else about RF
at the same time and wasn't paying attention to what I was typing.. sorry
about that. Thanks for the correction. *technically and on a very
rediculous note, there can be enough inductance in a length of speaker wire
to cause a slight delay in current supplied to the speaker. Since current
is really what drives the speaker, that could be considered propagation
delay... OK.. like I said.. on a very rediculous level... gotta save face
some how for my not paying attention! :-) *

> The reasons to be concerned about speaker wire are (1) to make sure that
> the resistance doesn't drop enough to change the load on the amplifier,
> which will have an effect on the sound and cause power to be dissipated in
> the wire, and (2) to minimize adverse effects on the
> speaker/wire/amplifier system's damping factor.* As long as the wire is
> sufficiently heavy to prevent these problems, there is no further concern.

Now my turn ;-)) I think you meant that the resistance doesn't increase
enough.... If it could drop to zero you would have only the speaker
impedence which would be ideal. Then you would have no power disapation in
the wire and the damping factor would be whatever the amp could supply.

>
> Since measuring this in the home is difficult, rules-of-thumb are needed.
> That's the source of this entire discussion: what's the best rule of
> thumb.
>
> Fortunately, all of this work has already been done, and the answer is
> known. For runs of 50 feet or less, 14-gauge wire is sufficient to prevent
> audible signal degradation in any home system. 50 feet of 14-gauge wire
> has resistance of .25 ohms, which is not enough to have an effect on an
> amplifier or cause audible loss of power, and a damping factor of 31,
> which is sufficiently higher than the minimum desirable DF of 20 that the
> issue stops being a concern.
>
> So everybody go back to bed.
>
> RichC
>
> *Damping factor is the ability of the system to prevent the speaker
> diaphragm moving after the signal stops.
>

[rdclark]

C what I mean wrote:

> > The reasons to be concerned about speaker wire are (1) to make sure
that
> > the resistance doesn't drop enough to change the load on the
amplifier,
> > which will have an effect on the sound and cause power to be
dissipated in
> > the wire, and (2) to minimize adverse effects on the
> > speaker/wire/amplifier system's damping factor.* As long as the
wire is
> > sufficiently heavy to prevent these problems, there is no further
concern.
>
> Now my turn ;-)) I think you meant that the resistance doesn't
increase
> enough.... If it could drop to zero you would have only the speaker
> impedence which would be ideal. Then you would have no power
disapation in
> the wire and the damping factor would be whatever the amp could
supply.

Yes, I did mean "increase." Thank you. The higher the impedance the
lower the current flow, until eventually your expensive AV receiver
becomes a space heater. The thinner the wire, the higher the impedance.

RichC

[C what I mean]

"rdclark" <rdclark2@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1107786223.561176.30390@g14g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
>
> C what I mean wrote:
>
>> > The reasons to be concerned about speaker wire are (1) to make sure
> that
>> > the resistance doesn't drop enough to change the load on the
> amplifier,
>> > which will have an effect on the sound and cause power to be
> dissipated in
>> > the wire, and (2) to minimize adverse effects on the
>> > speaker/wire/amplifier system's damping factor.* As long as the
> wire is
>> > sufficiently heavy to prevent these problems, there is no further
> concern.
>>
>> Now my turn ;-)) I think you meant that the resistance doesn't
> increase
>> enough.... If it could drop to zero you would have only the speaker
>> impedence which would be ideal. Then you would have no power
> disapation in
>> the wire and the damping factor would be whatever the amp could
> supply.
>
> Yes, I did mean "increase." Thank you. The higher the impedance the
> lower the current flow, until eventually your expensive AV receiver
> becomes a space heater. The thinner the wire, the higher the impedance.
>
> RichC

You're a good sport!

YOU'RE stating theory and I'm stating real life, and truth be told anything
16 guage or larger will usually do fine for most modern gear.
Sure the longer the speaker run the larger the guage is desirable, but
larger guage is more expensive and I havent been able to tell any difference
since I went to 16g for my rears, they just dont see that much duty
"Jack Dotson" <jdotson@stx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:fIqNd.13442$sr1.11777@fe2.texas.rr.com...
>
> <steve99@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:kCgNd.33496$t67.7537@bignews5.bellsouth.net.. .
> >I prefer twelve gauge for the fronts and use 16 for everything else.
> > If anything you have it backwards, the fronts and center will need the
> > larger guage because of higher power signals . The speakers in the back
> > just
> > arent called on as much
> > "Jim Johnson" <dogman56@msn.com> wrote in message
> > news:1106p5be4jnd635@corp.supernews.com...
>
> Wrong answer again! The guage of speaker wire you need will depend on the
> length of the cable. The longer the run, the bigger (lower guage) the
cable
> will need to be. You had it right from the get go. Keep the length of
your
> left and right front speakers the same, even if they are set-up at unequal
> distance and use the same guage. I actually use a sepcialty cable for my
> L/R fronts and center and 12 guage zip coord on my rears.
>
> >> Hi everyone,
> >>
> >> This is probably a dumb question, but I've wondered about it. I've
heard
> >> that for longer runs to use a heavier gage speaker wire (etc to rear
> >> speakers), but does it matter if you mix them. My fronts aren't far
from
> > my
> >> receiver so I don't need a heave gage for them I guess. I guess what I
> > want
> >> to ask is if I use a lighter gage wire for the fronts and a heavier
gage
> > for
> >> the rears (mixed) does this affect the amp's performance in any way.
> > Should
> >> I just use the same gage for all (heavier gage). Thanks for your help.
> >>
> >> Jim
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

[Lucas Tam]

<steve99@bellsouth.net> wrote in
news:3WKXd.16177$Q83.9390@bignews5.bellsouth.net:

> YOU'RE stating theory and I'm stating real life, and truth be told
> anything 16 guage or larger will usually do fine for most modern
> gear.

For once, I gotta agree with you. For most intents and purposes, there is
no point in using anything larger than 14 or 16 guage. Most people won't
hear the difference (if there is any!).

--
Lucas Tam (REMOVEnntp@rogers.com)
Please delete "REMOVE" from the e-mail address when replying.
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/coolspot18/