HAI vs Leviton

[John O]

We're developing a training program for home technology integration. We've
chosen to use an HAI Omni-II controller, to teach alarms systems as well as
automation functions.

We've had a few potential customers tell us that Leviton is "the" way to go
for home automation because it's more reliable, blah blah blah. Leviton's
site is oddly devoid of any overall look at their technology approach, but
it seems like it is a large dose of X-10 with some hard-wired control, too,
just like HAI. Leviton has lots of devices, where HAI apparently focuses on
panels.

Our objectives are to develop a thorough understanding of the technology
itself, and the Omni-II seems like a better value because it handles a wider
variety of tasks. It's also not a consumer-level system, which should give
it that "pro-only" cachet. And maybe that's where the perceived quality of
the Leviton stuff originates...people have heard of it before, and know it
to be OK.

If you have a moment, which of the two systems would you use for HA, and
why?

-John

[Brian]

Neither I would go with Elk M1Gold.

But I'm not sure what Leviton Product your talking about? They make better
X10 stuff but not stuff I would install. Lightolier is much better.

--
Brian Dye
-------------------------------------
brian@tech-home.com
http://tech-home.com


"John O" <johno@#no^spam&heathkit.com> wrote in message
news:Kz5Md.18171$Vj3.10526@newssvr17.news.prodigy. com...
> We're developing a training program for home technology integration. We've
> chosen to use an HAI Omni-II controller, to teach alarms systems as well
> as automation functions.
>
> We've had a few potential customers tell us that Leviton is "the" way to
> go for home automation because it's more reliable, blah blah blah.
> Leviton's site is oddly devoid of any overall look at their technology
> approach, but it seems like it is a large dose of X-10 with some
> hard-wired control, too, just like HAI. Leviton has lots of devices, where
> HAI apparently focuses on panels.
>
> Our objectives are to develop a thorough understanding of the technology
> itself, and the Omni-II seems like a better value because it handles a
> wider variety of tasks. It's also not a consumer-level system, which
> should give it that "pro-only" cachet. And maybe that's where the
> perceived quality of the Leviton stuff originates...people have heard of
> it before, and know it to be OK.
>
> If you have a moment, which of the two systems would you use for HA, and
> why?
>
> -John
>
>
>

[Brian]

Well to be fair about this I sell more then Lightolier (UPB, X10, Zwave,
etc.). I make more profit margin on another rather then Lightolier.
Personally I use Zwave But for a install I would go with Lightolier. That is
until more Zwave (or possibly Zigbee) products hit the market.

Leviton does make good products but their X10 stuff comes from overseas
where they make regualr X10 branded products. I talk to the Leviton rep
several times about this.

Why?
Because of the quailty of their products.
No One else has a 3 speed fan control.
I've been though the factory training in Dallas and feel there products are
second to Nothing out. .

But at the end of the day I could care less what you pick or where you
buy.--

But the question I have is how are you comparing HAI to Leviton? Which
products?



Brian Dye
-------------------------------------
brian@tech-home.com
http://tech-home.com


"John O" <johno@#no^spam&heathkit.com> wrote in message
news:cw7Md.12383$Q07.9210@newssvr31.news.prodigy.c om...
>> http://tech-home.com
>>
>
> Oh...you wouldn't have an interest in that answer, would you? :-)
>
> -John O
>

[John O]

>
> But the question I have is how are you comparing HAI to Leviton? Which
> products?

That's a good question. I happened to speak to Jay at HAI since I first
posted, and he said the same thing. They really aren't
comparable...different things. We're using the Omni II for an alarm system,
and since we already have it, we're going to use it for HA and integration.
That's not its strength, but it will help us reach our goals without the
need to buy another controller... It sends X-10 as well as anybody else
(three modes), it has enough inputs and outputs, and it's software is
probably just as bad as all such software must be :-) . (just kidding, Jay)

My question was from a sales guy, who was hearing stuff from a potential
customer than Leviton was better than what we were doing. Hopefully I can
teach them what I just learned.

-John O

[Brian]

When you get something installed, post an update with a review. This will
help others. My local Leviton Rep is a great guy but he is stuck on his X10
products. He is the one that told me the story of X10 (China, I think it
was) factory caught fire and they were broke. Leviton gave them money to
build another factory for rights.

Another suggest product is smarthome brand SwitchLinc. This would be my 2nd
choice below Lightolier.

I'm surprised no one else has chimed in on this.

ON a side note for structured wiring I use almost all Leviton with Channel
Vision. They make great quaility and nice looking stuff.

--
Brian Dye
-------------------------------------
brian@tech-home.com
http://tech-home.com
"John O" <johno@#no^spam&heathkit.com> wrote in message
news:0AbMd.18$4_7.11@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
> >
>> But the question I have is how are you comparing HAI to Leviton? Which
>> products?
>
> That's a good question. I happened to speak to Jay at HAI since I first
> posted, and he said the same thing. They really aren't
> comparable...different things. We're using the Omni II for an alarm
> system, and since we already have it, we're going to use it for HA and
> integration. That's not its strength, but it will help us reach our goals
> without the need to buy another controller... It sends X-10 as well as
> anybody else (three modes), it has enough inputs and outputs, and it's
> software is probably just as bad as all such software must be :-) . (just
> kidding, Jay)
>
> My question was from a sales guy, who was hearing stuff from a potential
> customer than Leviton was better than what we were doing. Hopefully I can
> teach them what I just learned.
>
> -John O
>
>

[John O]

> When you get something installed, post an update with a review. This will
> help others.

We're creating a course where students use these systems in a classroom. We
have a fake wall, and a bunch of sensors and stuff. We'll sell lots of them,
and they'll be used in vocational high schools, colleges, and the like.
Shameless plug: heathkit.com

Your advice--all of you here, and on the alarms group--has been well read
and digested. Hopefully we're providing tools and ideas that help these
students hit the job market running at full speed, and HTI+ certified. So
any of you that would want students graduating from these programs to work
for you...I might be able to give you a line on where to look. There aren't
many schools doing this yet, but the number is growing rapidly.

Thanks!

-John O

[L. M. Rappaport]

On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 14:36:26 GMT, "John O"
<johno@#no^spam&heathkit.com> wrote (with possible editing):

>We're developing a training program for home technology integration. We've
>chosen to use an HAI Omni-II controller, to teach alarms systems as well as
>automation functions.
>
>We've had a few potential customers tell us that Leviton is "the" way to go
>for home automation because it's more reliable, blah blah blah. Leviton's
>site is oddly devoid of any overall look at their technology approach, but
>it seems like it is a large dose of X-10 with some hard-wired control, too,
>just like HAI. Leviton has lots of devices, where HAI apparently focuses on
>panels.
>
>Our objectives are to develop a thorough understanding of the technology
>itself, and the Omni-II seems like a better value because it handles a wider
>variety of tasks. It's also not a consumer-level system, which should give
>it that "pro-only" cachet. And maybe that's where the perceived quality of
>the Leviton stuff originates...people have heard of it before, and know it
>to be OK.
>
>If you have a moment, which of the two systems would you use for HA, and
>why?

I would pick HAI and I use both. The main reason is that HAI works
with Levitton, Lightolier, X-10, ALC, and I'd guess they'll continue
to add all of the popular protocols. You're not stuck with plc.

I've found that Levitton green tends to forget their addresses which
means you have to refresh them every now and then. You do this by
removing the cover plate, pressing a concealed button and sending a
command to the device - not a big deal, but still a pita. ALC seems
to be a LOT more dependable. Levitton red periodically quits. I have
replaced a lot of Levitton red with green and now we're looking at a
major rewire to be able to replace Levitton green with ALC.

A second reason is that HAI has security and fire built in. You
mention home technology, so I'd guess you would want that as well.
You can use room sensors for purposes other than security - for
example, we routinely use hall PIR's to turn on lights for a few
minutes. It's really handy. We use magnetic road sensors to announce
guests via the interior and exterior PA sensors. HAI will run HVAC as
well. It's just a lot more flexible.

--

Larry
Email to rapp at lmr dot com

[Don]

I have HAI Omni Pro for the security, fire detection, and HVAC. While I do
use it for some X10 control, I depend on the Ocelot and Homeseer for most of
it. All my 200+ switches and outlets are Leviton and have had only one
failure in over 9 years.


--
Don K9SOA

www.k9soa.net
Home of JEANNIE
The House That Listens
My voice controlled automated home
as seen on HGTV and
in Home Automation and Kentucky Living magazines



"L. M. Rappaport" <nospam@invalid.org> wrote in message
news:mfe40159a51891u33g10m1ia38jvn65kh3@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 14:36:26 GMT, "John O"
> <johno@#no^spam&heathkit.com> wrote (with possible editing):
>
>>We're developing a training program for home technology integration. We've
>>chosen to use an HAI Omni-II controller, to teach alarms systems as well
>>as
>>automation functions.
>>
>>We've had a few potential customers tell us that Leviton is "the" way to
>>go
>>for home automation because it's more reliable, blah blah blah. Leviton's
>>site is oddly devoid of any overall look at their technology approach, but
>>it seems like it is a large dose of X-10 with some hard-wired control,
>>too,
>>just like HAI. Leviton has lots of devices, where HAI apparently focuses
>>on
>>panels.
>>
>>Our objectives are to develop a thorough understanding of the technology
>>itself, and the Omni-II seems like a better value because it handles a
>>wider
>>variety of tasks. It's also not a consumer-level system, which should give
>>it that "pro-only" cachet. And maybe that's where the perceived quality of
>>the Leviton stuff originates...people have heard of it before, and know it
>>to be OK.
>>
>>If you have a moment, which of the two systems would you use for HA, and
>>why?
>
> I would pick HAI and I use both. The main reason is that HAI works
> with Levitton, Lightolier, X-10, ALC, and I'd guess they'll continue
> to add all of the popular protocols. You're not stuck with plc.
>
> I've found that Levitton green tends to forget their addresses which
> means you have to refresh them every now and then. You do this by
> removing the cover plate, pressing a concealed button and sending a
> command to the device - not a big deal, but still a pita. ALC seems
> to be a LOT more dependable. Levitton red periodically quits. I have
> replaced a lot of Levitton red with green and now we're looking at a
> major rewire to be able to replace Levitton green with ALC.
>
> A second reason is that HAI has security and fire built in. You
> mention home technology, so I'd guess you would want that as well.
> You can use room sensors for purposes other than security - for
> example, we routinely use hall PIR's to turn on lights for a few
> minutes. It's really handy. We use magnetic road sensors to announce
> guests via the interior and exterior PA sensors. HAI will run HVAC as
> well. It's just a lot more flexible.
>
> --
>
> Larry
> Email to rapp at lmr dot com
>
>

[John O]

>All my 200+ switches and outlets are Leviton and have had only one failure
>in over 9 years.

That sounds like a general trend in this NG. I also pick up the idea that
Powerhouse has a much poorer reliability record...am I reading this
properly?

-John O

[L. M. Rappaport]

On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 20:28:08 -0500, "Don" <kyham@k9soa.net> wrote (with
possible editing):

>I have HAI Omni Pro for the security, fire detection, and HVAC. While I do
>use it for some X10 control, I depend on the Ocelot and Homeseer for most of
>it. All my 200+ switches and outlets are Leviton and have had only one
>failure in over 9 years.

We use Homeseer as well. I have Ocelot, but I don't care for it as it
seems anything I can do with an Ocelot, I can also do with the HAI
OPII.

I'm curious about your use of Levitton. Do you use their green or red
line? (the green line sets house and device codes by receiving a
signal, the red line uses switches on the device.) If you're using
the red line and getting those outstanding results, I think I should
try switching over to it. If not, I need to find out more about
what's going wrong here.

Thanks,
--

Larry
Email to rapp at lmr dot com

[Don]

I use the 6381, 6383, and 16400 switches. All have the dial switches. I
found that the programmable ones got reset by noise on the line way too many
times.


--
Don K9SOA

www.k9soa.net
Home of JEANNIE
The House That Listens
My voice controlled automated home
as seen on HGTV and
in Home Automation and Kentucky Living magazines


"L. M. Rappaport" <nospam@invalid.org> wrote in message
news:dg4f019pto67brnridfo3uggc906itvmq2@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 20:28:08 -0500, "Don" <kyham@k9soa.net> wrote (with
> possible editing):
>
>>I have HAI Omni Pro for the security, fire detection, and HVAC. While I
>>do
>>use it for some X10 control, I depend on the Ocelot and Homeseer for most
>>of
>>it. All my 200+ switches and outlets are Leviton and have had only one
>>failure in over 9 years.
>
> We use Homeseer as well. I have Ocelot, but I don't care for it as it
> seems anything I can do with an Ocelot, I can also do with the HAI
> OPII.
>
> I'm curious about your use of Levitton. Do you use their green or red
> line? (the green line sets house and device codes by receiving a
> signal, the red line uses switches on the device.) If you're using
> the red line and getting those outstanding results, I think I should
> try switching over to it. If not, I need to find out more about
> what's going wrong here.
>
> Thanks,
> --
>
> Larry
> Email to rapp at lmr dot com