Is Cat5 the best way to go?

[TIM]

I am looking for an advanced DIY solution for automation of my 2
bedroom condo. Lights, home theater, drapes and HVAC. I think I can
get Cat5 to about all the areas I need to. I may do an upgrade to some
of the wiring at the same time, allowing for Cat5 run to some areas
while the walls are open.

My question is.....is Cat5 the best way to go or should I look closer
at Lutron RadioRA for wireless or Lightolier Compose for PLC?

At first look I thought RadioRA was way over priced, but I do like
their switch design. I currently have Lutron Maestro Duo's throughout
the apartment.

Nice design of plates, controlls and switches are important to me.

If I do go with Cat5, what company makes nicely designed, switches,
controls, etc.?

As a programmer I can see the benefits of a computer/software based
scene set-up but can live with programming at each switch.

Also, I want to controll everything with my Pronto Pro and a bedside
touch panel.

Any and all suggestions are appreciated.

Thank you!

Tim

[John Hines]

TIM <TG@CIRCA.COM> wrote:

>My question is.....is Cat5 the best way to go or should I look closer
>at Lutron RadioRA for wireless or Lightolier Compose for PLC?

Find a controller that works for you, then wire for it.

Hardwired is the best. 2 cat-5 wires goes a long way. I use 2 pairs on
one for line level audio bussed for the audio, and another can work
phone. The other pair for LAN.

[wkearney99]

> Hardwired is the best. 2 cat-5 wires goes a long way. I use 2 pairs on
> one for line level audio bussed for the audio, and another can work
> phone. The other pair for LAN.

10/100BaseT require 4 wires (2 pairs). Gig-E requires 8 wires (all 4
pairs).

It's true you can share a 4 pair cable. Just make sure you don't rob
yourself of added flexibility later.

-Bill Kearney

[wkearney99]

> I am looking for an advanced DIY solution for automation of my 2
> bedroom condo. Lights, home theater, drapes and HVAC.
....
> My question is.....is Cat5 the best way to go or should I look closer
> at Lutron RadioRA for wireless or Lightolier Compose for PLC?

PLC in a condo may be problematic. As would wireless. Should your
neighbors start automating you run into conflict and noise issues. For a
single-family home it's usually not an issue. For condos and apartments,
however, it can be problematic. Hard-wired, of course, avoids this
entirely.

> Also, I want to controll everything with my Pronto Pro and a bedside
> touch panel.

Bear in mind that remotes often use IR. If you need to use IR then you'll
want to look into IR networks like Xantech (in addition to the lighting).
Otherwise I find it's handy to use RF (radio) remotes. Given that it's a
condo, however, you face possible problems with other neighbors using the
same remotes. A wired IR network would help avoid the inevitable conflicts.
The IR sensors can be placed discreetly in as many places as needed and are
pretty good at picking up signals.

[TIM]

I am going to hardwire with full PVC Jacketed SpeedWrap with fiber
optic cable. 2 RG-6, 2 Cat5e and 2 Multi-Mode optical fiber should
provide enough options for a while.

I started wiring with FutureSmart SpeedWrap about 5 years ago and got
side tracked with other projects. Now that I am coming back to it I
thought there would be stability in the PLC and wireless market but I
see it still is in flux.

Does the Compose firewall finally solve all the PLC stability
problems? If so, why isn't everyone flocking to Compose?

Is it just me or does Lutron seem bent on making sure wireless
solutions are unaffordable even to the three figure income range?

I guess RadioRA is more competetive pricewise when the area is large
and pulling wires would be very expensive. But, in my two bedroom NY
condo I will slice a few baseboards, carve a few walls and have
SpeedWraped everything.


On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 11:22:13 -0500, "wkearney99"
<wkearney99@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> I am looking for an advanced DIY solution for automation of my 2
>> bedroom condo. Lights, home theater, drapes and HVAC.
>...
>> My question is.....is Cat5 the best way to go or should I look closer
>> at Lutron RadioRA for wireless or Lightolier Compose for PLC?
>
>PLC in a condo may be problematic. As would wireless. Should your
>neighbors start automating you run into conflict and noise issues. For a
>single-family home it's usually not an issue. For condos and apartments,
>however, it can be problematic. Hard-wired, of course, avoids this
>entirely.
>
>> Also, I want to controll everything with my Pronto Pro and a bedside
>> touch panel.
>
>Bear in mind that remotes often use IR. If you need to use IR then you'll
>want to look into IR networks like Xantech (in addition to the lighting).
>Otherwise I find it's handy to use RF (radio) remotes. Given that it's a
>condo, however, you face possible problems with other neighbors using the
>same remotes. A wired IR network would help avoid the inevitable conflicts.
>The IR sensors can be placed discreetly in as many places as needed and are
>pretty good at picking up signals.

[Mark Thomas]

TIM wrote:
> I started wiring with FutureSmart SpeedWrap about 5 years ago and got
> side tracked with other projects. Now that I am coming back to it I
> thought there would be stability in the PLC and wireless market but I
> see it still is in flux.

There are many more options then there were 5 years ago, and many just
on the cusp of being available. It looks like the market will get
diluted even more but will no doubt go through one or more rounds of
consolidation over the next few years.

> Does the Compose firewall finally solve all the PLC stability
> problems?

No, but it does a better job than just about any other X-10 based
solution.

> If so, why isn't everyone flocking to Compose?

Because its pricing puts it in the range of other competing
technologies that are inherently better than X-10.

UPB, for example, is another powerline technology that it priced
similarly but is more reliable and has less hassle with no repeaters,
firewalls, or filters needed (in most installations... dunno about NY
condos :).

> Is it just me or does Lutron seem bent on making sure wireless
> solutions are unaffordable even to the three figure income range?

It's not just you. The good news is that there are many competing
wireless solutions just on the horizon which will be cheaper and should
bring down prices in general. I think RadioRA's days are numbered
though.

> I guess RadioRA is more competetive pricewise when the area is large
> and pulling wires would be very expensive. But, in my two bedroom NY
> condo I will slice a few baseboards, carve a few walls and have
> SpeedWraped everything.

I concur with the others who said that a wired solution is your best
option.

- Mark.

[TIM]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Usenet is wonderful, a couple
postings and I've got my direction. You guys are great!

Now I've got to go and start operating on some walls.

Someone should design a cable puller with a camera, light and micro
tools on the end. Or a pocket x-ray digital camera. Anything to see
inside the walls!

:-)

Tim



On 3 Feb 2005 06:15:53 -0800, "Mark Thomas" <mrt@thomaszone.com>
wrote:

>
>TIM wrote:
>> I started wiring with FutureSmart SpeedWrap about 5 years ago and got
>> side tracked with other projects. Now that I am coming back to it I
>> thought there would be stability in the PLC and wireless market but I
>> see it still is in flux.
>
>There are many more options then there were 5 years ago, and many just
>on the cusp of being available. It looks like the market will get
>diluted even more but will no doubt go through one or more rounds of
>consolidation over the next few years.
>
>> Does the Compose firewall finally solve all the PLC stability
>> problems?
>
>No, but it does a better job than just about any other X-10 based
>solution.
>
>> If so, why isn't everyone flocking to Compose?
>
>Because its pricing puts it in the range of other competing
>technologies that are inherently better than X-10.
>
>UPB, for example, is another powerline technology that it priced
>similarly but is more reliable and has less hassle with no repeaters,
>firewalls, or filters needed (in most installations... dunno about NY
>condos :).
>
>> Is it just me or does Lutron seem bent on making sure wireless
>> solutions are unaffordable even to the three figure income range?
>
>It's not just you. The good news is that there are many competing
>wireless solutions just on the horizon which will be cheaper and should
>bring down prices in general. I think RadioRA's days are numbered
>though.
>
>> I guess RadioRA is more competetive pricewise when the area is large
>> and pulling wires would be very expensive. But, in my two bedroom NY
>> condo I will slice a few baseboards, carve a few walls and have
>> SpeedWraped everything.
>
>I concur with the others who said that a wired solution is your best
>option.
>
>- Mark.

[wkearney99]

> Someone should design a cable puller with a camera, light and micro
> tools on the end. Or a pocket x-ray digital camera. Anything to see
> inside the walls!

Heh, trouble is the replacement costs. It's a lot cheaper to just snip the
fish tape and leave it in the walls WHEN (not if) it gets stuck.

A stud sensor works wonders for discovering unexpected blockages. The
latest ones are a lot more intelligent about how they sense the densities of
materials beneath the walls. I find it's helpful to sweep the desired span
BEFORE running anything. There's always a different way to run a cable and
finding blockages before cutting openings saves a lot of headaches.

[TIM]

>
>Heh, trouble is the replacement costs. It's a lot cheaper to just snip the
>fish tape and leave it in the walls WHEN (not if) it gets stuck.
>
>A stud sensor works wonders for discovering unexpected blockages. The
>latest ones are a lot more intelligent about how they sense the densities of
>materials beneath the walls. I find it's helpful to sweep the desired span
>BEFORE running anything. There's always a different way to run a cable and
>finding blockages before cutting openings saves a lot of headaches.


I'm glad to hear that the newer stud finders are more sensitive. I
have very thick prewar plaster walls. My current Zirtech is worthless.
It was expensive but never was able to give clear feedback on my
walls.

[COneilliv]

>Someone should design a cable puller with a camera, light and micro
>tools on the end. Or a pocket x-ray digital camera. Anything to see
>inside the walls!
>

http://www.lsdinc.com/cgi-local/search.cgi?user_id=id&2_option=2&2=Vision&
database=data/Dbase1.txt&template=templatekk2.html&output_number=10

[Frank Mc Alinden]

Hi Tim
Not sure if you guys have seen the Clipsal CBUS system...uses cat5 for switches and looks really nice....and at least here in Oz quite affordable...

http://www.clipsal.com/cis/newproducts.php3

HTH
Frank
PS..........Im sure i seen reference to 110v Clipsal CBUS Dimmers somewhere..