DLP projector

Looking to get a DLP projector and have a certain distance where it has to
be mounted. Let's say this figure is 15 feet. What specifications do I need
to be looking for on what kind of screen size a projector can display at 15
feet?

[azzure@olypen.com]

xman@thedripper.com wrote:
> Looking to get a DLP projector and have a certain distance where it has to
> be mounted. Let's say this figure is 15 feet. What specifications do I need
> to be looking for on what kind of screen size a projector can display at 15
> feet?
>
>

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&forumid=68&x=6&y=6

[cinchel]

even though it's specific to infocus projectors here is a link:
http://www.infocus.com/service/software/projcalc/screenplay.asp?site_lang=1&site_region=1&itemId=sp7205

[John C.]

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 14:28:00 -0500, <xman@thedripper.com> wrote:

>Looking to get a DLP projector and have a certain distance where it has to
>be mounted. Let's say this figure is 15 feet. What specifications do I need
>to be looking for on what kind of screen size a projector can display at 15
>feet?
>
http://www.projectorcentral.com/projectors.cfm

[Dennis' Newsgroups]

<xman@thedripper.com> wrote in message
news:10v5aa2rrbhea1f@corp.supernews.com...
> Looking to get a DLP projector and have a certain distance where it has to
> be mounted. Let's say this figure is 15 feet. What specifications do I
> need
> to be looking for on what kind of screen size a projector can display at
> 15
> feet?
>
>

What you should do is to figure out a budget for one. Once you have a
number, research the ones that are in that price range (www.avsforum.com,
www.projectorcentral.com, etc.). Once you have narrowed down a projector -
tried to get a demo if possible (this is hard if you are looking at the
projectors under $5000 like the one I bought because home theater stores
usually don't carry ones in that price range). If you figure out a model,
you can find out what size screen that projector will give you at a 15'
throw distance. Go to www.projectorcentral.com, search for the model(s)
that you are interested in and there is a projection calculator link you can
click on for each projector to tell you what size screen. Make sure to
select whether you will be using a 4:3 ratio screen or a 16:9 (don't bother
with a 4:3 screen personally for home theater get the wide 16:9).






Dennis

[azzure@olypen.com]

Dennis' Newsgroups wrote:
Make sure to
> select whether you will be using a 4:3 ratio screen or a 16:9 (don't bother
> with a 4:3 screen personally for home theater get the wide 16:9).
> Dennis


DLPs have something called "light spill" This refers to the fact that
they cannot project black. Dark-gray is more like it.

Because of that (and other reasons) I would match the PJ to the screen.
I would get a 4:3 (or build one as I did) screen with a 4:3 PJ. I own
the Infocus X1 (4:3 DLP PJ). We sit 8 - 9 feet back from an 80"
diagonal 4:3 screen. The X1 is ceiling mounted 12' from the screen.
I use Felt masking for each Aspect Ratio - 1.85 (essentially 16:9 screen
size) and 2.35 (most movies, this is narrower than 16:9 and would still
show black (dark-gray) bars on a 16:9 screen).
And I really like being able to use all the pixels I purchased whenever
I watch a 4:3 film. It is like sitting front of an IMAX screen. It is
amazing!

I do think Dennis is right in suggesting going 16:9 for Home Theater.
But only if the PJ is 16:9. He says get the wider 16:9 screen. For a
16:9 PJ this is perfect. For a 4:3 PJ one is not getting wider but
actually getting vertically narrower as the screen will lose a
substantial amount of projected pixels. (and the light spill issue)

Anyway - look into the Infocus 4805 if the throw numbers are right for
you. It is a great 16:9 DLP.

[azzure@olypen.com]

azzure@olypen.com wrote:
> Dennis' Newsgroups wrote:
> Make sure to
>
>> select whether you will be using a 4:3 ratio screen or a 16:9 (don't
>> bother with a 4:3 screen personally for home theater get the wide 16:9).
>> Dennis
>
>
>
> DLPs have something called "light spill" This refers to the fact that
> they cannot project black. Dark-gray is more like it.
>
> Because of that (and other reasons) I would match the PJ to the screen.
> I would get a 4:3 (or build one as I did) screen with a 4:3 PJ. I own
> the Infocus X1 (4:3 DLP PJ). We sit 8 - 9 feet back from an 80"
> diagonal 4:3 screen. The X1 is ceiling mounted 12' from the screen.
> I use Felt masking for each Aspect Ratio - 1.85 (essentially 16:9 screen
> size) and 2.35 (most movies, this is narrower than 16:9 and would still
> show black (dark-gray) bars on a 16:9 screen).
> And I really like being able to use all the pixels I purchased whenever
> I watch a 4:3 film. It is like sitting front of an IMAX screen. It is
> amazing!
>
> I do think Dennis is right in suggesting going 16:9 for Home Theater.
> But only if the PJ is 16:9. He says get the wider 16:9 screen. For a
> 16:9 PJ this is perfect. For a 4:3 PJ one is not getting wider but
> actually getting vertically narrower as the screen will lose a
> substantial amount of projected pixels. (and the light spill issue)
>
> Anyway - look into the Infocus 4805 if the throw numbers are right for
> you. It is a great 16:9 DLP.
>

I should go further:
A 4:3 Projector throws a 4:3 path of projected light no matter what the
settings are. If the technology was perfect and the black areas were
black then the light spill would not be seen. But LCDs and DLPs cannot
project a black image, it is always a dark gray.
Masking when using a Digital PJ is always a good idea. Even 16:9
projector and screen combinations have a gray area. The region between
what the movie's actual Aspect Ratio is and the Aspect Ratio of the
Projector is the gray area.

Also Dennis' Newgroups gives some of the best advise in this (and
others) Newsgroup. I just disagree with him on this point.
Also Dennis doesn't like DLPs. I do.
Go to AVSFORUM.com and read what others have to say about the pluses and
minuses of both kinds of Digital PJs.

There aren't many 16:9 native DLP projectors out there...I think the person
was trying to tell me look into getting a 16:9 screen. Well, if everyone
suffers with gray and not showing black then I guess I will suffer as well.
I'm not sure what kind of screen I'm going to get at all. I'll first use my
wall to see what kind of size the unit projects onto it...then work on
getting a screen from there. A DLP projector really can't display black?
Wow, movies must look really weird then.

<azzure@olypen.com> wrote in message news:41F3C2BC.2080108@olypen.com...
> azzure@olypen.com wrote:
> > Dennis' Newsgroups wrote:
> > Make sure to
> >
> >> select whether you will be using a 4:3 ratio screen or a 16:9 (don't
> >> bother with a 4:3 screen personally for home theater get the wide
16:9).
> >> Dennis
> >
> >
> >
> > DLPs have something called "light spill" This refers to the fact that
> > they cannot project black. Dark-gray is more like it.
> >
> > Because of that (and other reasons) I would match the PJ to the screen.
> > I would get a 4:3 (or build one as I did) screen with a 4:3 PJ. I own
> > the Infocus X1 (4:3 DLP PJ). We sit 8 - 9 feet back from an 80"
> > diagonal 4:3 screen. The X1 is ceiling mounted 12' from the screen.
> > I use Felt masking for each Aspect Ratio - 1.85 (essentially 16:9 screen
> > size) and 2.35 (most movies, this is narrower than 16:9 and would still
> > show black (dark-gray) bars on a 16:9 screen).
> > And I really like being able to use all the pixels I purchased whenever
> > I watch a 4:3 film. It is like sitting front of an IMAX screen. It is
> > amazing!
> >
> > I do think Dennis is right in suggesting going 16:9 for Home Theater.
> > But only if the PJ is 16:9. He says get the wider 16:9 screen. For a
> > 16:9 PJ this is perfect. For a 4:3 PJ one is not getting wider but
> > actually getting vertically narrower as the screen will lose a
> > substantial amount of projected pixels. (and the light spill issue)
> >
> > Anyway - look into the Infocus 4805 if the throw numbers are right for
> > you. It is a great 16:9 DLP.
> >
>
> I should go further:
> A 4:3 Projector throws a 4:3 path of projected light no matter what the
> settings are. If the technology was perfect and the black areas were
> black then the light spill would not be seen. But LCDs and DLPs cannot
> project a black image, it is always a dark gray.
> Masking when using a Digital PJ is always a good idea. Even 16:9
> projector and screen combinations have a gray area. The region between
> what the movie's actual Aspect Ratio is and the Aspect Ratio of the
> Projector is the gray area.
>
> Also Dennis' Newgroups gives some of the best advise in this (and
> others) Newsgroup. I just disagree with him on this point.
> Also Dennis doesn't like DLPs. I do.
> Go to AVSFORUM.com and read what others have to say about the pluses and
> minuses of both kinds of Digital PJs.
>

[azzure@olypen.com]

xman@thedripper.com wrote:
> There aren't many 16:9 native DLP projectors out there...I think the person
> was trying to tell me look into getting a 16:9 screen. Well, if everyone
> suffers with gray and not showing black then I guess I will suffer as well.
> I'm not sure what kind of screen I'm going to get at all. I'll first use my
> wall to see what kind of size the unit projects onto it...then work on
> getting a screen from there. A DLP projector really can't display black?
> Wow, movies must look really weird then.
>

Well :)

It depends upon your expectations I guess.

A CRT PJ will display black as black - no light at all. A Digital PJ
cannot do that. So when a 4:3 PJ casts a 4:3 shape of light onto a
16:9 screen there will be light spill above and below the screen.
But it doesn't sound like it'll bother you. I already stated why I like
to match PJ to screen. I see the lightspill and I like to use all the
pixels I bought. (Film's Aspect Ratio allowing)

The best thing to do is what you've suggested. Get the PJ and project
it onto a white sheet or white wall and live with it for a couple of
days. You will find out a lot by doing. It's kind of a first things
first situation. PJ first, Screen second. My wife and I were so blown
away by what we saw with our X1 that we watched for two weeks on the
sheet before I built our screen. And I built it according to what we
needed not what sizes are normal. (72" or 96" or 120", etc. Standards)

Star Wars does look a little weird BTW if you want space to be black.
I would prefer better blacks but I really enjoy our X1. Dark-grays and
all. ;)
And when I mask with light absorbing Black Felt above and below each
film's Aspect Ratio the blacks do seem blacker.

And the Infocus 4805 is an excellent 16:9 DLP PJ.

Enjoy!

[Dave Bugg]

xman@thedripper.com wrote:
> There aren't many 16:9 native DLP projectors out there...I think the
> person was trying to tell me look into getting a 16:9 screen. Well,
> if everyone suffers with gray and not showing black then I guess I
> will suffer as well. I'm not sure what kind of screen I'm going to
> get at all. I'll first use my wall to see what kind of size the unit
> projects onto it...then work on getting a screen from there. A DLP
> projector really can't display black? Wow, movies must look really
> weird then.

My NEC HT-1100 does a pretty darned good job of displaying blacks.
Light -spill really is a seperate technical issue from the ability to
display blacks. The primary affect of light spill is the havoc it can reek
on contrast ratio. Light spill is not an issue on my HT-1100, either (it is
a DLP).
--
Dave
Dave's Pit-Smoked Bar-B-Que
http://davebbq.com/

[azzure@olypen.com]

Dave Bugg wrote:
> xman@thedripper.com wrote:
>
>>There aren't many 16:9 native DLP projectors out there...I think the
>>person was trying to tell me look into getting a 16:9 screen. Well,
>>if everyone suffers with gray and not showing black then I guess I
>>will suffer as well. I'm not sure what kind of screen I'm going to
>>get at all. I'll first use my wall to see what kind of size the unit
>>projects onto it...then work on getting a screen from there. A DLP
>>projector really can't display black? Wow, movies must look really
>>weird then.
>
>
> My NEC HT-1100 does a pretty darned good job of displaying blacks.
> Light -spill really is a seperate technical issue from the ability to
> display blacks. The primary affect of light spill is the havoc it can reek
> on contrast ratio. Light spill is not an issue on my HT-1100, either (it is
> a DLP).

The spill you're referring to is a more correct definition than mine.
Our X1 does have lightspill out of the grill but it is minor (to me)
compared to the light that would spill above and below a 16:9 screen
when a 4:3 PJ projects its 4:3 light path onto it.
And it depends on the sensitivity of the viewer to this.

I haven't seen a Digital PJ that can display blacks as the complete
absence of light yet. But good DLPs come closest.

[azzure@olypen.com]

azzure@olypen.com wrote:

> Star Wars does look a little weird BTW if you want space to be black.
> I would prefer better blacks but I really enjoy our X1. Dark-grays and
> all. ;)
> And when I mask with light absorbing Black Felt above and below each
> film's Aspect Ratio the blacks do seem blacker.

Our guests would not agree with my assessment of our X1's blacks, BTW.
Star Wars looks great!

Beauty's in the eye . . . and all that.

[Dave Bugg]

azzure@olypen.com wrote:

> The spill you're referring to is a more correct definition than mine.
> Our X1 does have lightspill out of the grill but it is minor (to me)
> compared to the light that would spill above and below a 16:9 screen
> when a 4:3 PJ projects its 4:3 light path onto it.
> And it depends on the sensitivity of the viewer to this.

Prior to my HT-1100, I owned the Panny 75U, then the X1. The type of light
spill you refer to off of the screen can be corrected somewhat with proper
distances from the screen, and adjustable screen sizing [my Firehawk is
pulled up or down according to the ratio needed]. Bordering, as you have
mentioned, also helps. The color of the walls can also be a factor in
further reflecting the light from the spillage, as well as off the screen.
It all falls into much the same category as ambient light.

> I haven't seen a Digital PJ that can display blacks as the complete
> absence of light yet. But good DLPs come closest.

I haven't even seen that at the local theaters or on the tube, either. It is
my belief that the fuss made about "black" blacks, is tremendously
overblown. It is not even the most important issue for a projector to
achieve. If it does, fine. I think the representation of black in many
digital projectors right now is very well done; perhaps not perfect, but not
a hideous, distracting flaw either. When PJs achieve a "black" black level,
I think it will be less climactic than some would have us believe.
--
Dave
Dave's Pit-Smoked Bar-B-Que
http://davebbq.com/

[Clams Canino]

Ya, I'm of the impression that a 2000/1 contrast ratio goes a long way to
making "credible black".

-W

"Dave Bugg" <davebugg2@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:nAYId.15861

> When PJs achieve a "black" black level,
> I think it will be less climactic than some would have us believe.

[azzure@olypen.com]

Dave Bugg wrote:
Bordering, as you have
> mentioned, also helps. The color of the walls can also be a factor in
> further reflecting the light from the spillage, as well as off the screen.
> It all falls into much the same category as ambient light.
>
>

Having dark walls does help. And if by Bordering you mean putting a
mask above and below the film's edge, I agree.
Using adjustable Black Felt strips above and below the film's edge
really does make the film "pop".
I lined my frame with the hook side of Velcro strips (male side) and
Felt behaves like the female side of Velcro and I can easily mask the
overspill.

We have no ambient light in our HT. Some would not like this. I prefer
it.

When PJs achieve a "black" black level,
> I think it will be less climactic than some would have us believe.

I don't agree. But then different strokes. It is (for me) the achilles
heel of Digital PJs. Blacks are good but they are not black and it is
part of the contrast adjustment.
Our living room CRT based RPTV has black blacks but that all it does
better.

In all this discussion it is always good to consider that we are
probably talking about the same thing in different ways. More often
than not people are actually agreeing and just not realizing it.

I would most likely use the projector of course for DVD viewing and HD
content from the cable system. All of which is 16:9 aspect ratio. I'd be an
idiot NOT to get a 16:9 DLP PJ, right?

<azzure@olypen.com> wrote in message news:41F44E2E.301@olypen.com...
> xman@thedripper.com wrote:
> > There aren't many 16:9 native DLP projectors out there...I think the
person
> > was trying to tell me look into getting a 16:9 screen. Well, if everyone
> > suffers with gray and not showing black then I guess I will suffer as
well.
> > I'm not sure what kind of screen I'm going to get at all. I'll first use
my
> > wall to see what kind of size the unit projects onto it...then work on
> > getting a screen from there. A DLP projector really can't display black?
> > Wow, movies must look really weird then.
> >
>
> Well :)
>
> It depends upon your expectations I guess.
>
> A CRT PJ will display black as black - no light at all. A Digital PJ
> cannot do that. So when a 4:3 PJ casts a 4:3 shape of light onto a
> 16:9 screen there will be light spill above and below the screen.
> But it doesn't sound like it'll bother you. I already stated why I like
> to match PJ to screen. I see the lightspill and I like to use all the
> pixels I bought. (Film's Aspect Ratio allowing)
>
> The best thing to do is what you've suggested. Get the PJ and project
> it onto a white sheet or white wall and live with it for a couple of
> days. You will find out a lot by doing. It's kind of a first things
> first situation. PJ first, Screen second. My wife and I were so blown
> away by what we saw with our X1 that we watched for two weeks on the
> sheet before I built our screen. And I built it according to what we
> needed not what sizes are normal. (72" or 96" or 120", etc. Standards)
>
> Star Wars does look a little weird BTW if you want space to be black.
> I would prefer better blacks but I really enjoy our X1. Dark-grays and
> all. ;)
> And when I mask with light absorbing Black Felt above and below each
> film's Aspect Ratio the blacks do seem blacker.
>
> And the Infocus 4805 is an excellent 16:9 DLP PJ.
>
> Enjoy!
>
>
>

Isn't the very low lumens the 4805 has a problem? The dell I was looking at
had 2000 lumens. I would think when using that 4805 the room has to be pitch
black for the image to look correctly. I guess I'm heading to look for a DLP
projector that can display 720p without having to convert or change
anything. This is what I want.

<azzure@olypen.com> wrote in message news:41F44E2E.301@olypen.com...
> xman@thedripper.com wrote:
> > There aren't many 16:9 native DLP projectors out there...I think the
person
> > was trying to tell me look into getting a 16:9 screen. Well, if everyone
> > suffers with gray and not showing black then I guess I will suffer as
well.
> > I'm not sure what kind of screen I'm going to get at all. I'll first use
my
> > wall to see what kind of size the unit projects onto it...then work on
> > getting a screen from there. A DLP projector really can't display black?
> > Wow, movies must look really weird then.
> >
>
> Well :)
>
> It depends upon your expectations I guess.
>
> A CRT PJ will display black as black - no light at all. A Digital PJ
> cannot do that. So when a 4:3 PJ casts a 4:3 shape of light onto a
> 16:9 screen there will be light spill above and below the screen.
> But it doesn't sound like it'll bother you. I already stated why I like
> to match PJ to screen. I see the lightspill and I like to use all the
> pixels I bought. (Film's Aspect Ratio allowing)
>
> The best thing to do is what you've suggested. Get the PJ and project
> it onto a white sheet or white wall and live with it for a couple of
> days. You will find out a lot by doing. It's kind of a first things
> first situation. PJ first, Screen second. My wife and I were so blown
> away by what we saw with our X1 that we watched for two weeks on the
> sheet before I built our screen. And I built it according to what we
> needed not what sizes are normal. (72" or 96" or 120", etc. Standards)
>
> Star Wars does look a little weird BTW if you want space to be black.
> I would prefer better blacks but I really enjoy our X1. Dark-grays and
> all. ;)
> And when I mask with light absorbing Black Felt above and below each
> film's Aspect Ratio the blacks do seem blacker.
>
> And the Infocus 4805 is an excellent 16:9 DLP PJ.
>
> Enjoy!
>
>
>

Check this baby out...too bad it's not 720p....but hey, for DVD's it's
probably very good!

http://www.cnet.com/4520-10602_1-5619591-1.html

<azzure@olypen.com> wrote in message news:41F44E2E.301@olypen.com...
> xman@thedripper.com wrote:
> > There aren't many 16:9 native DLP projectors out there...I think the
person
> > was trying to tell me look into getting a 16:9 screen. Well, if everyone
> > suffers with gray and not showing black then I guess I will suffer as
well.
> > I'm not sure what kind of screen I'm going to get at all. I'll first use
my
> > wall to see what kind of size the unit projects onto it...then work on
> > getting a screen from there. A DLP projector really can't display black?
> > Wow, movies must look really weird then.
> >
>
> Well :)
>
> It depends upon your expectations I guess.
>
> A CRT PJ will display black as black - no light at all. A Digital PJ
> cannot do that. So when a 4:3 PJ casts a 4:3 shape of light onto a
> 16:9 screen there will be light spill above and below the screen.
> But it doesn't sound like it'll bother you. I already stated why I like
> to match PJ to screen. I see the lightspill and I like to use all the
> pixels I bought. (Film's Aspect Ratio allowing)
>
> The best thing to do is what you've suggested. Get the PJ and project
> it onto a white sheet or white wall and live with it for a couple of
> days. You will find out a lot by doing. It's kind of a first things
> first situation. PJ first, Screen second. My wife and I were so blown
> away by what we saw with our X1 that we watched for two weeks on the
> sheet before I built our screen. And I built it according to what we
> needed not what sizes are normal. (72" or 96" or 120", etc. Standards)
>
> Star Wars does look a little weird BTW if you want space to be black.
> I would prefer better blacks but I really enjoy our X1. Dark-grays and
> all. ;)
> And when I mask with light absorbing Black Felt above and below each
> film's Aspect Ratio the blacks do seem blacker.
>
> And the Infocus 4805 is an excellent 16:9 DLP PJ.
>
> Enjoy!
>
>
>

[Clams Canino]

The X1 got its extra lumens with a white facet that it shut off when it went
from presentation to theatre mode, as I recall. That's kinda "false
lumens".

The 4805 has more lumens *without* a white at all, than the X1 had with the
white shut off - so it' a net gain.

I'd like to hear from someone who used an X1 in both modes (to watch movies)
expound on the visual differences.

And pitch black is OK for me.......... and the theatres. :)

-W

<xman@thedripper.com> wrote in message
news:10v91vutqsj33c@corp.supernews.com...
> Isn't the very low lumens the 4805 has a problem? The dell I was looking
at
> had 2000 lumens. I would think when using that 4805 the room has to be
pitch
> black for the image to look correctly. I guess I'm heading to look for a
DLP
> projector that can display 720p without having to convert or change
> anything. This is what I want.
>
> <azzure@olypen.com> wrote in message news:41F44E2E.301@olypen.com...
> > xman@thedripper.com wrote:
> > > There aren't many 16:9 native DLP projectors out there...I think the
> person
> > > was trying to tell me look into getting a 16:9 screen. Well, if
everyone
> > > suffers with gray and not showing black then I guess I will suffer as
> well.
> > > I'm not sure what kind of screen I'm going to get at all. I'll first
use
> my
> > > wall to see what kind of size the unit projects onto it...then work on
> > > getting a screen from there. A DLP projector really can't display
black?
> > > Wow, movies must look really weird then.
> > >
> >
> > Well :)
> >
> > It depends upon your expectations I guess.
> >
> > A CRT PJ will display black as black - no light at all. A Digital PJ
> > cannot do that. So when a 4:3 PJ casts a 4:3 shape of light onto a
> > 16:9 screen there will be light spill above and below the screen.
> > But it doesn't sound like it'll bother you. I already stated why I like
> > to match PJ to screen. I see the lightspill and I like to use all the
> > pixels I bought. (Film's Aspect Ratio allowing)
> >
> > The best thing to do is what you've suggested. Get the PJ and project
> > it onto a white sheet or white wall and live with it for a couple of
> > days. You will find out a lot by doing. It's kind of a first things
> > first situation. PJ first, Screen second. My wife and I were so blown
> > away by what we saw with our X1 that we watched for two weeks on the
> > sheet before I built our screen. And I built it according to what we
> > needed not what sizes are normal. (72" or 96" or 120", etc. Standards)
> >
> > Star Wars does look a little weird BTW if you want space to be black.
> > I would prefer better blacks but I really enjoy our X1. Dark-grays and
> > all. ;)
> > And when I mask with light absorbing Black Felt above and below each
> > film's Aspect Ratio the blacks do seem blacker.
> >
> > And the Infocus 4805 is an excellent 16:9 DLP PJ.
> >
> > Enjoy!
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Ohm]

Clams Canino wrote:
> The X1 got its extra lumens with a white facet that it shut off when it went
> from presentation to theatre mode, as I recall. That's kinda "false
> lumens".
>
> The 4805 has more lumens *without* a white at all, than the X1 had with the
> white shut off - so it' a net gain.

Yes, X1 projects using four colours: red, green, blue and white and then
it gets 1600 lumens. But with Video In signal it turns white colour off
for better color reproduction and it have around 500 lumens then.

Screenplay 4805 uses 3 colours all the time so it has to be advertised
as 750 lumens, being brighter than many "2000 lumen" projectors.

Regarding black - I've heard you can get a screen which is not white but
light grey and it makes blacks better but I never seen such a screen.

Cheers,
Ohm