Smarthome Lamplinc and local control

[Richard S. Smith]

I am using the Smarthome Lamplinc (2000SHL) and have noticed that
after a power outage it remembers the X10 address but forgets other
settings such as local control (which I like to leave on) and preset
dim level (which I always keep at 100%). It seems to want to reset
to local control = off and preset dim = resume which is annoying.

Has anyone had any luck opening these things up and jumping leads
together to "lock in" certain behaviors?

With Smarthome focusing more and more on Insteon I want to stock up on
the "classic" X10 modules so I figure now is a good time to be asking
questions like this.

Thanks.

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Richard S. Smith / Email: rss@idiom.com / Web: http://www.rssnet.org/
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[James Himmelman]

"Richard S. Smith" <rss@idiom.com> wrote in news:1146146861.176304@smirk:

> With Smarthome focusing more and more on Insteon I want to stock up on
> the "classic" X10 modules so I figure now is a good time to be asking
> questions like this.

No need to "stock up". Insteon modules communicate with X10 as well.

Jim H.

[Richard S. Smith]

James Himmelman <donttry@optonline.net> wrote:
> "Richard S. Smith" <rss@idiom.com> wrote in news:1146146861.176304@smirk:
>> With Smarthome focusing more and more on Insteon I want to stock up on
>> the "classic" X10 modules so I figure now is a good time to be asking
>> questions like this.
>
> No need to "stock up". Insteon modules communicate with X10 as well.

All of the Insteon lamp modules are bi-directional in their X10
behavior. I don't want to fill my house with bi-directional lamp
modules due to the risk of excessive X10 signal absorption.

That's why I'm going down this path. I think something will be lost
when Smarthome exits the market for plain X10 hardware. They made a
lot of good stuff.

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Richard S. Smith / Email: rss@idiom.com / Web: http://www.rssnet.org/
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[Robert Green]

"Richard S. Smith" <rss@idiom.com> wrote in message

<stuff snipped>

> All of the Insteon lamp modules are bi-directional in their X10
> behavior. I don't want to fill my house with bi-directional lamp
> modules due to the risk of excessive X10 signal absorption.
>
> That's why I'm going down this path. I think something will be lost
> when Smarthome exits the market for plain X10 hardware. They made a
> lot of good stuff.

Very interesting. Migration apparently can't be undertaken slowly when
going from X-10 to Insteon. That's going to have some profound implications
for people that wanted to switch over gradually.

--
Bobby G.

[BruceR]

I will be completing the conversion from X10 to Insteon this weekend.
Over the past couple of months that I've been doing this I found that
the addition of just a few Insteon devices started to compromise X10
signals even with a repeater in place. While initially I was only going
to take care of some trouble spots with Insteon I decided to bite the
bullet and just do the whole thing. Now that I have about 40 of the 48
devices installed Insteon is proving to be very robust. I do have some
signal problems that are being caused by the presence of both signals. I
anticipate that those problems will stop once I have RoZetta installed.
In the meantime I'm thinking of building an isolation method to keep X10
of the whole house wiring.
I'm thinking of plugging two filters into an outlet, with a power strip
plugged into them. Into the powerstrip I will plug the TW523, the
Insteon 2414X Translator and an RF Linc. Another RF Linc will be
plugged into a nearby outlet. The filters should prevent the TW523
signals from "escaping" from the powerstrip. They may also attenuate the
Insteon transmissions. So, the RF link will then transmit the Insteon
signals to another RFLinc which will in turn place it on the powerline.


> "Richard S. Smith" <rss@idiom.com> wrote in message
>
> <stuff snipped>
>
>> All of the Insteon lamp modules are bi-directional in their X10
>> behavior. I don't want to fill my house with bi-directional lamp
>> modules due to the risk of excessive X10 signal absorption.
>>
>> That's why I'm going down this path. I think something will be lost
>> when Smarthome exits the market for plain X10 hardware. They made a
>> lot of good stuff.
>
> Very interesting. Migration apparently can't be undertaken slowly
> when going from X-10 to Insteon. That's going to have some profound
> implications for people that wanted to switch over gradually.

[Dave Houston]

"Robert Green" <ROBERT_GREEN1963@YAH00.COM> wrote:

>"Richard S. Smith" <rss@idiom.com> wrote in message
>
><stuff snipped>
>
>> All of the Insteon lamp modules are bi-directional in their X10
>> behavior. I don't want to fill my house with bi-directional lamp
>> modules due to the risk of excessive X10 signal absorption.
>>
>> That's why I'm going down this path. I think something will be lost
>> when Smarthome exits the market for plain X10 hardware. They made a
>> lot of good stuff.
>
>Very interesting. Migration apparently can't be undertaken slowly when
>going from X-10 to Insteon. That's going to have some profound implications
>for people that wanted to switch over gradually.

In my review back in July/August of last year, I said, "The interoperability
with X-10 is a big plus although the fact that the more Insteon units one
has (all are two-way) the more the X-10 signal will be attenuated, tends to
negate that." And SmartHome also tends to stress the negative effect on X-10
so it should not come as a big surprise.

I would expect there is some critical mass or point of no return where the
hit to X-10 communications will encourage you to complete the transition but
it still gives you a way to evaluate Insteon with minimal risk. And, judging
from the posts here by those who have made the switch, the decision is easy
to make, even after adding just a few Insteon units.

It is disappointing that they did not design it to disconnect the
transmitter section, when idle, to eliminate its loading of the powerline.

[Richard S. Smith]

Dave Houston <nobody@whocares.com> wrote:
> It is disappointing that they did not design it to disconnect the
> transmitter section, when idle, to eliminate its loading of the powerline.

It doesn't make much sense to me either, given that many of us
rely on X10 for motion detection, RF interface, thermostat
control, computer control, and many other things that Insteon
doesn't do yet, and you are just expected to start migrating to
Insteon when they don't have replacements for anything except the
lighting control (and even that's not complete yet). Then as you
start doing this you may see your X10 components start to behave
marginally due to signal attenuation.

I'll be the first to admit that X10 is not perfect but it's a
well-understood technology and it still has the most hardware
available for it. My humble opinion is that the choice between
X10 and Insteon is just a choice between one can of worms and
another.

--
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Richard S. Smith / Email: rss@idiom.com / Web: http://www.rssnet.org/
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[Dave Houston]

"Richard S. Smith" <rss@idiom.com> wrote:

>Dave Houston <nobody@whocares.com> wrote:
>> It is disappointing that they did not design it to disconnect the
>> transmitter section, when idle, to eliminate its loading of the powerline.
>
>It doesn't make much sense to me either, given that many of us
>rely on X10 for motion detection, RF interface, thermostat
>control, computer control, and many other things that Insteon
>doesn't do yet, and you are just expected to start migrating to
>Insteon when they don't have replacements for anything except the
>lighting control (and even that's not complete yet). Then as you
>start doing this you may see your X10 components start to behave
>marginally due to signal attenuation.

They have many of those coming by years end. I think they got a bit
overwhelmed by the demand.

Reed relays are cheap and have lifetimes in the billions of cycles. I wish
they had used them in their designs to disconnect the idle transmitters.

>I'll be the first to admit that X10 is not perfect but it's a
>well-understood technology and it still has the most hardware
>available for it. My humble opinion is that the choice between
>X10 and Insteon is just a choice between one can of worms and
>another.

My recommendation was that there's really no need to switch for those who
already have a lot of X-10 and understand how to deal with X-10's
idiosyncracies. However, for anyone just getting started with HA, I think
Insteon is clearly the way to go simply because it is a fast, two-way
protocol that eliminates guessing about the state of a device and the ICON
line of devices is priced about as aggressively as X-10.

[BruceR]

> Dave Houston <nobody@whocares.com> wrote:
>> It is disappointing that they did not design it to disconnect the
>> transmitter section, when idle, to eliminate its loading of the
>> powerline.
>
> It doesn't make much sense to me either, given that many of us
> rely on X10 for motion detection, RF interface, thermostat
> control, computer control, and many other things that Insteon
> doesn't do yet, and you are just expected to start migrating to
> Insteon when they don't have replacements for anything except the
> lighting control (and even that's not complete yet). Then as you
> start doing this you may see your X10 components start to behave
> marginally due to signal attenuation.
>
> I'll be the first to admit that X10 is not perfect but it's a
> well-understood technology and it still has the most hardware
> available for it. My humble opinion is that the choice between
> X10 and Insteon is just a choice between one can of worms and
> another.

True, the product is still new and doesn't have all the bells & whistles
yet which can be said for UPB, Z-wave, & Zigbee too. If X10 is doing a
decent job of meeting your needs I think there's no reason to convert
right away. Clearly, pioneers have a tendency to find arrows in their
backs and there's a risk with any choice. I decided to convert to
Insteon for several reasons; they had an X10 translator (arrow #1)
available (with its own problems that I look for RoZetta to solve), they
have their own successful sales channels with which to bring product to
market, they have a track record of developing new and innovative
products and they encourage others to do so, the backward compatibility
with X10, limited as that may be, and, of course, their pricing is the
most "friendly" of all the other new options out there right now.
In my case, I was finding my X10 installation to be suffering as time
went on and after 22 years of dealing with X10 problems I was ready to
try something new. Fortunately, my t-stats are tied to my Stargate via
RS-485 and I don't use any of the X10 motion detectors or other
peripherals so lighting and some fountain pumps are all I need to be
concerned with.
Bottom line: If X10 is working acceptably for you right now there's
certainly no rush to jump into any of the new choices; however, for a
new installation, there's no reason to stick with X10.

[James Himmelman]

"BruceR" <br@NOhawaiiSPAM.com> wrote in news:NEpbg.4013$uM4.3724
@tornado.socal.rr.com:

> I don't use any of the X10 motion detectors

People keep bringing up motion detectors, but I don't see the problem.

I have several wireless X10 motion detectors. I use a W800RF to recieve
those signals, and HomeSeer sends out the Insteon command of my choice.
There are NO X10 PLC signals on my power lines from this, and hence no
conflict with Insteon. The X10 WIRELESS protocol has little to do with the
X10 PLC protocol, and actually works very well (at least for me).

Eventually, I will welcome the introduction of wireless motion sensors that
can communicate directly with Insteon Signalincs. However, as far as I can
tell right now, the only practical difference will be that I can eliminate
the W800RF from the system - although it is not giving me ANY problems or
cause for concern.

By the way - the same goes for my wireless window/door sensors. Again,
directly to W800RF, and out with Insteon commands. No X10 on powerline.

The one X10 powerline device I DO still have is a X10 universal (low
voltage switching) module - and in THAT case I am eagerly awaiting an
Insteon alternative. However, even after installing over 50 Insteon
devices, I am not having any difficulty at all communicating with this X10
powerline device. I have never seen it miss even one command.

Jim H.