Video Surveailance - kind of OT

[AZ Woody]

There have been two significant crimes where I live in the last couple
weeks. One was at a gas station (inside), one at a fast food restaurant
(inside).

Both had video camera. They should the footage on the news so the public
might help in IDing the crooks...

But I got to tell you, the video was so bad that you couldn't really make
out anybody.

I figured there were a bunch of people here who set up this type of system,
that could explain why the video like these crime scene tapes are soooooooo
bad. It seems that a system with clearer video would be a great assistance
in cutting crime in my area, and I just wonder what the problem are.

Thanks in advance...

[Steve Uhrig]

On Wed, 9 Nov 2005 18:30:56 -0700, "AZ Woody" <Reply@here.not.email>
wrote:

> But I got to tell you, the video was so bad that you couldn't really make
> out anybody.

This is VERY typical.

> I figured there were a bunch of people here who set up this type of system,
> that could explain why the video like these crime scene tapes are soooooooo
> bad. It seems that a system with clearer video would be a great assistance
> in cutting crime in my area, and I just wonder what the problem are.

You are correct.

However, most businesses and even governments consider security a
non-revenue-producing function, and an expense rather than an
investment.

So they buy the cheapest low bid garbage and do zero maintenance.
Never change the tape, never clean the recorder heads much less send
the recorders out for annual maintenance and have heads and all rubber
parts replaced.

We do high reliability video surveillance for governments and
occasional VIPs. It is *very* common for our imitators to quote less
for the entire job installed than we would pay for just the hardware.
We did a high profile install a while back which ran $1/3 million. The
next lowest bid under us was $55K. Fortunately the FBI was in on the
project and their protection guy knew the ins and outs of a decent
video install.

There are some articles in the White Papers section of our website
which go into this in more detail if you're interested.

Regards ... Steve

************************************************** *******************
Steve Uhrig, SWS Security, Maryland (USA)
Mfrs of electronic surveillance equip
mailto:Steve@swssec.com website http://www.swssec.com
tel +1+410-879-4035, fax +1+410-836-1190
"In God we trust, all others we monitor"
************************************************** *******************

[brobin]

While I don't think that the local bodega can afford a $333,333.33 video
system or even one for $55K, You're correct in pointing out that the el
cheapo poorly maintained sytems can be improved upon, Actuall, I have a
pretty good system at my house that records "evidence quality" video for
under $2K.


"Steve Uhrig" <Steve@swssec.com> wrote in message
news:47a5n1drqvbl0q9rdacmk3don2grv38n0n@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 9 Nov 2005 18:30:56 -0700, "AZ Woody" <Reply@here.not.email>
> wrote:
>
>> But I got to tell you, the video was so bad that you couldn't really make
>> out anybody.
>
> This is VERY typical.
>
>> I figured there were a bunch of people here who set up this type of
>> system,
>> that could explain why the video like these crime scene tapes are
>> soooooooo
>> bad. It seems that a system with clearer video would be a great
>> assistance
>> in cutting crime in my area, and I just wonder what the problem are.
>
> You are correct.
>
> However, most businesses and even governments consider security a
> non-revenue-producing function, and an expense rather than an
> investment.
>
> So they buy the cheapest low bid garbage and do zero maintenance.
> Never change the tape, never clean the recorder heads much less send
> the recorders out for annual maintenance and have heads and all rubber
> parts replaced.
>
> We do high reliability video surveillance for governments and
> occasional VIPs. It is *very* common for our imitators to quote less
> for the entire job installed than we would pay for just the hardware.
> We did a high profile install a while back which ran $1/3 million. The
> next lowest bid under us was $55K. Fortunately the FBI was in on the
> project and their protection guy knew the ins and outs of a decent
> video install.
>
> There are some articles in the White Papers section of our website
> which go into this in more detail if you're interested.
>
> Regards ... Steve
>
> ************************************************** *******************
> Steve Uhrig, SWS Security, Maryland (USA)
> Mfrs of electronic surveillance equip
> mailto:Steve@swssec.com website http://www.swssec.com
> tel +1+410-879-4035, fax +1+410-836-1190
> "In God we trust, all others we monitor"
> ************************************************** *******************

[equity-loan.info]

AZ Woody wrote:

> I figured there were a bunch of people here who set up this type of
> system, that could explain why the video like these crime scene tapes are
> soooooooo bad. It seems that a system with clearer video would be a great
> assistance in cutting crime in my area, and I just wonder what the problem
are.

Owners of both businesses were not paying attention to the state of their
CCTV equipment that deteriorated over time. The tapes were most likely
written many, many times over, and every time it introduced more and more
distortion.

What they should have done, is to purchase a new DVR-based system that can
be had for less than $500 these days and throw the time-lapse VCRs out of
the window. The single time you actually need to look at the video usually
pays for the entire investment into a good quality cameras and a good DVR.
Thieves are known to be ordered by court to pay business owners for the
CCTV equipment once caught, BTW.

www.equity-loan.info
Homeowner's issues discussed here.
Come join us!
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[obo]

under $500 may be a bit of a stretch

"equity-loan.info" <info_at_equity-loan_dot_com@foo.com> wrote in message
news:4374e018$1_4@alt.athenanews.com...
> AZ Woody wrote:
>
>> I figured there were a bunch of people here who set up this type of
>> system, that could explain why the video like these crime scene tapes are
>> soooooooo bad. It seems that a system with clearer video would be a
>> great
>> assistance in cutting crime in my area, and I just wonder what the
>> problem
> are.
>
> Owners of both businesses were not paying attention to the state of their
> CCTV equipment that deteriorated over time. The tapes were most likely
> written many, many times over, and every time it introduced more and more
> distortion.
>
> What they should have done, is to purchase a new DVR-based system that can
> be had for less than $500 these days and throw the time-lapse VCRs out of
> the window. The single time you actually need to look at the video usually
> pays for the entire investment into a good quality cameras and a good DVR.
> Thieves are known to be ordered by court to pay business owners for the
> CCTV equipment once caught, BTW.
>
> www.equity-loan.info
> Homeowner's issues discussed here.
> Come join us!
> -------------------------------------
>
>
> ##-----------------------------------------------##
> Delivered via http://www.equity-loan.info/
> Your home, its financing and everything about it
> Web and RSS access to your favorite newsgroup -
> comp.home.automation - 11919 messages and counting!
> ##-----------------------------------------------##

[Robert Green]

"obo" <obo@ono.nono> wrote in message
news:mB9df.59871$ty1.8429@bignews1.bellsouth.net.. .
> under $500 may be a bit of a stretch

No, they're becoming cheaper and cheaper by the day. They are, in many
cases, just glorified PC's with a video capture card. Supercircuits sells a
WCV31 Security Camera DVR Quad w/120GB HD for $389.

http://www.supercircuits.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3770

"The all new DVQ-1 offers the luxury combination of a color quad processor
and a full time digital video recorder. The DVQ is a four channel unit that
will record up to four cameras and audio for up to 2400 hours on a 120GB IDE
hard drive"

--
Bobby G.

[Robert Green]

"equity-loan.info" <info_at_equity-loan_dot_com@foo.com>

<stuff snipped>

> What they should have done, is to purchase a new DVR-based system that can
> be had for less than $500 these days and throw the time-lapse VCRs out of
> the window. The single time you actually need to look at the video usually
> pays for the entire investment into a good quality cameras and a good DVR.

There are numerous reasons to switch to DVR. The ability to move instantly
to the point in the recording that you want to view is probably just as
important as the video quality. I'd keep the old time-lapse stuff, though,
so that a really bright thief who gets the idea to steal the tape can pop
out a recording of Mary Poppins while the real images are stored in a
secure, hidden DVR cabinet.

--
Bobby G.

[obo]

"Robert Green" <ROBERT_GREEN1963@YAH00.COM> wrote in message
news:Uc-dnfWDu86-zujenZ2dnUVZ_vmdnZ2d@rcn.net...
> "obo" <obo@ono.nono> wrote in message
> news:mB9df.59871$ty1.8429@bignews1.bellsouth.net.. .
>> under $500 may be a bit of a stretch
>
> No, they're becoming cheaper and cheaper by the day. They are, in many
> cases, just glorified PC's with a video capture card. Supercircuits sells
> a
> WCV31 Security Camera DVR Quad w/120GB HD for $389.
>
> http://www.supercircuits.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3770
>
> "The all new DVQ-1 offers the luxury combination of a color quad processor
> and a full time digital video recorder. The DVQ is a four channel unit
> that
> will record up to four cameras and audio for up to 2400 hours on a 120GB
> IDE
> hard drive"
>
> --
> Bobby G.
>
personally I would want a multiplex as opposed to a quad processor unless
you can bring up full recorded screen on any camera with the quad which you
usually can't do with a quad. This is inferior unit without that ability
and therefore still a stretch in my book. And not networkable. Thanks for
the link though.

[Robert Green]

"obo" <obo@ono.nono> wrote in message news:zFldf.14379$

> personally I would want a multiplex as opposed to a quad processor unless
> you can bring up full recorded screen on any camera with the quad which
you
> usually can't do with a quad. This is inferior unit without that ability
> and therefore still a stretch in my book. And not networkable. Thanks for
> the link though.

Youch! I believe Mr. LoanInfo said, simply, you could get a DVR for under
$500. We were comparing them to simple time lapse VCRs, IIRC. This unit

http://www.supercircuits.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3770

is not only is a DVR, it has a *color* quad processor, built-in, too. Given
the choice, I'd rather have the quad DVR than a single channel time
lapseVCR, which is usually what $500 will get you. I'm not sure what
operational details are, since the instruction manual link doesn't work but
I think you're asking for a little much for $500. Most 7-11's could care
less about networkability and I don't recall seeing time lapse VCR's with
network interfaces.

FWIW, they have about 50 other models of DVR including single channel models
for $219 here:

http://www.supercircuits.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=299

I'm pretty sure at least ONE of them will satisfy the statement that you can
get a decent DVR for under $500. They are also fairly pricey - almost
everything they sell can be found for about 20% if you shop around.

A few of us here bought 16 channel multiplexers from Ebay for about $100.
Still plenty of money left over to buy a separate DVR that records whatever
channel was selected via alarm, video motion detection or operator control.
There seems to be a very solid supply of muxes and DVRs for sale on Ebay as
casinos and other big CCTV users upgrade to fancier models.

In terms of superior video quality and ease of searching even a cheap quad
DVR beats a VCR-based system hands down, especially in terms of operators
who record on the same tape for six months straight! With a 120GB drive
going for $60 on sale capable of holding 2400 hours of video, you can also
keep an incredible archive going for very little money.

I still think Mr. LoanInfo was quite correct when he suggested you can get
(or build) a very nice DVR for under $500. The unit I cited would be an
*incredible* step up for many places that nowuse a single camera and a time
lapse VCR. More importantly, you can pick up some incredibly nice models
used on Ebay, and unlike VCRs, you don't have to worry about the video heads
or the transport mechanisms being worn out from excessive use. There aren't
any in a DVR.

--
Bobby G.