non proprietary stuff

[Marc Gerges]

Hello --

Where should I start looking when I want to setup light control
(switches, dimmers, relays) using non proprietary hardware?

I'm after a setup with around 12 light points, multiple switches, and
integration with my home server (e.g. access via standard protocols to
the log and current status of lights). The only thing I found that was
not limited to a single vendor was EIB, and that's expensive as hell.

I do not want to use X10 equipment. My electric installation is setup
to accomodate signal lines and power lines everywhere. I don't want to
transmit signal over power with all its disadvantages. Plus, most X10
equipment is for 110V AC, while I am using 220V AC.

Regards,
Marc

[Marc F Hult]

On 30 Oct 2005 13:21:30 -0800, "Marc Gerges" <marc.gerges@gmail.com> wrote
in message <1130707290.886455.235910@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups. com>:

>Hello --
>
>Where should I start looking when I want to setup light control
>(switches, dimmers, relays) using non proprietary hardware?
>
>I'm after a setup with around 12 light points, multiple switches, and
>integration with my home server (e.g. access via standard protocols to
>the log and current status of lights). The only thing I found that was
>not limited to a single vendor was EIB, and that's expensive as hell.
>
>I do not want to use X10 equipment. My electric installation is setup
>to accomodate signal lines and power lines everywhere. I don't want to
>transmit signal over power with all its disadvantages. Plus, most X10
>equipment is for 110V AC, while I am using 220V AC.
>
>Regards,
>Marc


Not proprietary.
Not power line control (PLC)
Not radio frequency because you want to use signal lines that you have
installed

Assuming that you want to be able to _dim_ the lights (not just on-off) ,
the options I know of are:

Digital: DMX512 which is the universal standard for entertainment lighting
(theatre, concert, lightshow etc) and is also used for architectural
lighting. Google dmx512 and dmx-512.

Analog: 0-10vdc analog control

There are reasonably priced, commercial dimmers with CE
certification/approval hat have _both_ DMX512 and 0-10vdc analog control

One is shown here on my web site:

www.econtrol.org/dmx512.htm.

Alternatively one can use conventional solid state relays in a central panel
as shown here:

www.econtrol.org/ssr_panel.htm

The complication/challenge comes with the interface. My solution is a device
that (for better or worse) I dubbed ActiveKnob which is explained here:

http://www.econtrol.org/16-pos_ak.htm

which uses a motorized potentiometer that can be controlled by a home
automation control program of rotated by hand. In either case, the knob
position always accurately reflects the control voltage.

Open-source DMX512 transceivers with USB interface to a computer can be had
these days for as little as $25 if you do some work yourself or $50 all
built http://www.enttec.com/opendmxusb.php There are many other home-brew
devices

www.econtrol.org/DMX512%20Links.htm

Hope This Helps ... from another yet Marc ;-)
Marc_F_Hult
www.ECOntrol.org

[Marc F Hult]

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 00:33:33 GMT, Marc F Hult <MFHult@nothydrologistnot.com>
wrote in message <6fkam1lrvt60b1ofdvl96a12pk7n0vqv3p@4ax.com>:

>On 30 Oct 2005 13:21:30 -0800, "Marc Gerges" <marc.gerges@gmail.com> wrote
>in message <1130707290.886455.235910@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups. com>:
>
>>Hello --
>>
>>Where should I start looking when I want to setup light control
>>(switches, dimmers, relays) using non proprietary hardware?
>>
>>I'm after a setup with around 12 light points, multiple switches, and
>>integration with my home server (e.g. access via standard protocols to
>>the log and current status of lights). The only thing I found that was
>>not limited to a single vendor was EIB, and that's expensive as hell.
>>
>>I do not want to use X10 equipment. My electric installation is setup
>>to accomodate signal lines and power lines everywhere. I don't want to
>>transmit signal over power with all its disadvantages. Plus, most X10
>>equipment is for 110V AC, while I am using 220V AC.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Marc
>
>
>Not proprietary.
>Not power line control (PLC)
>Not radio frequency because you want to use signal lines that you have
>installed
>
>Assuming that you want to be able to _dim_ the lights (not just on-off) ,
>the options I know of are:
>
>Digital: DMX512 which is the universal standard for entertainment lighting
>(theatre, concert, lightshow etc) and is also used for architectural
>lighting. Google dmx512 and dmx-512.
>
>Analog: 0-10vdc analog control

I should add that the Digital Addressable Lighting Interface (DALI) that is
used in architectural and industrial lighting also meets your criteria (if,
perhaps, not your budget).

http://www.archenergy.com/lrp/lightingperf_standards/DALI%20V1_13.pdf

DALI is designed to be an evolutionary follow-on to 0-10vdc control.

http://www.caba.org/standard/dali.html

It is of interest (to me at least ;-) that there are Atmel AVR microcontrollers
configured to facilitate DALI lighting control.

http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/product_card.asp?part_id=3614

HTH ... Marc
Marc_F_Hult
www.ECOntrol.org

[Dave Houston]

http://caraca.sourceforge.net/

"Marc Gerges" <marc.gerges@gmail.com> wrote:

>Hello --
>
>Where should I start looking when I want to setup light control
>(switches, dimmers, relays) using non proprietary hardware?
>
>I'm after a setup with around 12 light points, multiple switches, and
>integration with my home server (e.g. access via standard protocols to
>the log and current status of lights). The only thing I found that was
>not limited to a single vendor was EIB, and that's expensive as hell.
>
>I do not want to use X10 equipment. My electric installation is setup
>to accomodate signal lines and power lines everywhere. I don't want to
>transmit signal over power with all its disadvantages. Plus, most X10
>equipment is for 110V AC, while I am using 220V AC.
>
>Regards,
>Marc

[Marc F Hult]

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 17:46:23 GMT, nobody@whocares.com (Dave Houston) wrote
in message <43665854.49931970@nntp.fuse.net>:

>http://caraca.sourceforge.net/

This system addresses neither dimming nor the human interface.

There are all manner of homebrew projects like this that can switch lights
on and off. If that is all that is needed, one needn't look much further
than a 1-wire network There are many commercial sources and one excellent
npon-profit one: www.phanderson.com

Both the interface and the AC circuitry become significantly more
complicated if dimming is needed.

If an entirely _home brew_ dimming system is OK (as contrasted with
_standard_ 0-10vdc analog, DMX512 or DALI that I previously cited) ), there
are also other systems that are much better developed than the caraca CAN
project. However much fun that might be, it addresses the parts of the
system that are/have been trivially solved and not the hard parts -- in my
opinion ;-)

Offerings from the Belgian company www.velleman.be stand out as one of the
more developed homebrew dimming systems.

See their K8006//K8037/k80038 etc modules which are explained here:

http://www.velleman.be/Downloads/0/Velleman_dimmer_selection.pdf

Their offerings/system also includes a DMX512 dimmer (module K8039) and USB
DMX512 interface.

I've used their 0-10vdc analog input AC light dimmer in a commercial
application. Works well and much less expensive than a commercial 0-10vdc
input puck-style SSR dimmer.

Marc
Marc_F_Hult
www.ECOntrol.org

[Marc Gerges]

Gentlemen --

Thanks a lot for your insight - DMX actually is the keyword I needed.
Did some googling, checking out your links and am now making up my mind
about what I want.

[Marc F Hult]

On 3 Nov 2005 12:10:44 -0800, "Marc Gerges" <marc.gerges@gmail.com> wrote in
message <1131048644.315403.309750@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>:

>Gentlemen --
>
>Thanks a lot for your insight - DMX actually is the keyword I needed.
>Did some googling, checking out your links and am now making up my mind
>about what I want.

I'd/we'd be curious to learn what you discover about practical wall-mounted
switches/dimmer controls for DMX512. There are many inexpensive solutions
for the computer interface, analog inputs and outputs and ac dimmer
controls, but not waal-mounted controls. Artistic Licence has something, but
extremely expensive. Europeans are more advanced seems to me ...

.... Marc
Marc_F_Hult
www.ECOntrol.org

[Marc Gerges]

Marc --

I'm not yet that far in my plans, but to be honest, I don't see much of
a point in having powered rotary knobs or similar setups. The standard
interface with an impulse switch seems to work reasonably ok for most
people - especially when more complex scenarios will anyways be
controlled via light scenes.

cu
.\\arc

[Marc F Hult]

On 7 Nov 2005 13:46:31 -0800, "Marc Gerges" <marc.gerges@gmail.com> wrote in
message <1131399991.848468.245490@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups. com>:

>Marc --
>
>I'm not yet that far in my plans, but to be honest, I don't see much of
>a point in having powered rotary knobs or similar setups. The standard
>interface with an impulse switch seems to work reasonably ok for most
>people - especially when more complex scenarios will anyways be
>controlled via light scenes.
>
>cu
> .\\arc

Hi Marc,

As best I know, and as I wrote before, there *aren't* any "standard
interface with an impulse switch", which is why when you responded with "DMX
actually is the keyword I needed", I suggested that you let us know what you
find out.

Request stands ;-) If you do learn of reasonably priced " standard
interface[s]", i.e., wall mounted switches that control DMX512 -- nothing
fancy -- please do let us know.

Marc
Marc_F_Hult
www.ECOntrol.org