Russound A-BUS

[jpkishere@hotmail.com]

I am pretty much settled on Russound's A-H484 along withthe A-KP2
keypads for my whole house audio..

One of the lingering questions I had, would I be able to turn on and
off the "keypads" remotely using IR?

An example of this: would like to use the keypads as a sort of intercom
system, which from my computer I could use IR to say turn on the keypad
in the main bedroom and use this channel...

Thanks
jpk

[Mark Thomas]

I'm not sure if I understand your idea completely, but you cannot
control other zones from one zone's keypad (even via IR). Does that
answer your question?

[Mark Thomas]

I wrote:
> you cannot
> control other zones from one zone's keypad (even via IR)
....except for the System Off command, which affects all zones.

[Mick]

just out of curosity, have you seen the Barix stuff? I was all for an A-Bus
system, but this barix stuff seems to be pretty good and not very expensive

http://www.barix.com

Mick

jpkishere@hotmail.com wrote:
> I am pretty much settled on Russound's A-H484 along withthe A-KP2
> keypads for my whole house audio..
>
> One of the lingering questions I had, would I be able to turn on and
> off the "keypads" remotely using IR?
>
> An example of this: would like to use the keypads as a sort of intercom
> system, which from my computer I could use IR to say turn on the keypad
> in the main bedroom and use this channel...
>
> Thanks
> jpk
>

[Group Moderator]

Excellent On Russound
http://alarmsuperstore.com/russound/subindex.htm

[Mark Thomas]

> just out of curosity, have you seen the Barix stuff? I was all for an
A-Bus
> system, but this barix stuff seems to be pretty good and not very
expensive

Hmm... no control keypads, volume controls, or much support for
in-wall/in-ceiling speakers. They've got a decent line of audio-over-IP
streaming products, but they'd have to fill their product line out
quite a bit to be a whole-house audio company.

A lot of people just want to be able to walk into a room, hit a button
and get music. The A-Bus interface gives you that. Very few people want
to dink around with a web interface from a laptop or PDA to control
music.

Simplicity matters. I've seen fancy systems installed, complete with
in-wall keypads with lots of buttons that duplicate just about every
function from a remote control, and web interfaces too. In just about
every case, those features end up being ignored. What gets used is
on/off, volume up/down, source select. That's it.

I used to ignore A-Bus, but I've installed a few now and they seem to
have the highest owner satisfaction. One nice thing is that they are
very expandable... you add zones piecemeal and keep adding them. People
who can't afford the whole ball of wax at once can do a room at a time.
The primary downside is that there isn't any RS-232 control for
inclusion in home automation scenes (there's a way around that, but
it's a bit of a hack). Anyone who wants to get that fancy should look
at the zon system (www.zonaudio.com) which works digitally using the
same wiring as A-Bus (cat5 to keypad, speaker wire from keypad to
speakers). It's a bit more expensive but has every feature you could
ask for (including a wow factor when people see the keypads).

[jpkishere@hotmail.com]

Basically, I want to be able to use my PC to turn on and off zones..
Say I want to turn on the bedroom to the 3rd source but only in the
bedroom..

I am thinking in terms of home automation; so I could make
announcements in certain rooms if necessary..

i figured i could if I used IR since the A-KP2's can be controlled via
remote.. but not sure know..


Mark Thomas wrote:
> I'm not sure if I understand your idea completely, but you cannot
> control other zones from one zone's keypad (even via IR). Does that
> answer your question?

[Mick]

IR control for volume is standard. There is a unit with a built in amp to keep
the install simple

The lack of a keypad is a downside, but in my situation where all my music has
been converted to MP3's you would still need a PC interface, or PDA etc, to
select a playlist or individual song.

It would not be hard to put a pda on the wall as a volume control, source selector.

Mark Thomas wrote:
>>just out of curosity, have you seen the Barix stuff? I was all for an
>
> A-Bus
>
>>system, but this barix stuff seems to be pretty good and not very
>
> expensive
>
> Hmm... no control keypads, volume controls, or much support for
> in-wall/in-ceiling speakers. They've got a decent line of audio-over-IP
> streaming products, but they'd have to fill their product line out
> quite a bit to be a whole-house audio company.
>
> A lot of people just want to be able to walk into a room, hit a button
> and get music. The A-Bus interface gives you that. Very few people want
> to dink around with a web interface from a laptop or PDA to control
> music.
>

Just walk in and press play on the remote (I think, thats how Iread it)

> Simplicity matters. I've seen fancy systems installed, complete with
> in-wall keypads with lots of buttons that duplicate just about every
> function from a remote control, and web interfaces too. In just about
> every case, those features end up being ignored. What gets used is
> on/off, volume up/down, source select. That's it.
>
> I used to ignore A-Bus, but I've installed a few now and they seem to
> have the highest owner satisfaction. One nice thing is that they are
> very expandable... you add zones piecemeal and keep adding them. People
> who can't afford the whole ball of wax at once can do a room at a time.
> The primary downside is that there isn't any RS-232 control for
> inclusion in home automation scenes (there's a way around that, but
> it's a bit of a hack). Anyone who wants to get that fancy should look
> at the zon system (www.zonaudio.com) which works digitally using the
> same wiring as A-Bus (cat5 to keypad, speaker wire from keypad to
> speakers). It's a bit more expensive but has every feature you could
> ask for (including a wow factor when people see the keypads).
>

[Mark Thomas]

You can use IR, but the problem is that the IR inputs are at the
keypads only. There is no IR injector at the A-Bus hub. And the IR zone
is determined by which keypad received the IR, so you can't just hook
up a spare keypad for the sole purpose of controlling the system--you'd
need one per zone. Instead of doing this, you'd probably want to
install a system from the start with RS-232 control and/or paging
inputs.

It would be really nice if Russound added RS-232 to the AH484 hub. I
don't think it would be difficult at all, since the hub already has the
ability to control all zones (actions currently triggered by received
IR). Maybe I should try to talk to their product development guys, as
this is the one gaping hole in the A-Bus product line preventing it
from scaling up to sophisticated systems. Or perhaps they don't have an
interest in improving A-Bus to the point where it would cannibalize
their higher-profit CA-series products.

Anyway, if your sources are PC-based (i.e. FM tuner cards, streaming
MP3s, etc) or can be run through a PC, you can emulate paging by
briefly switching the sound cards' output to your announcements. But
this still doesn't give you a way to turn a zone on/off remotely.

[jpkishere@hotmail.com]

Yeah that is what I was figuring.. I like the CAV stuff, but way more
expensive -- for now I'll probably sttick with the abus stuff since it
seems to work with the higher end stuff too..

Let me know if you talk to them, would be very interested if they had a
serial interface -- the way I see it, that is the only thing really
lacking..

thanks
jpk
Mark Thomas wrote:
> You can use IR, but the problem is that the IR inputs are at the
> keypads only. There is no IR injector at the A-Bus hub. And the IR
zone
> is determined by which keypad received the IR, so you can't just hook
> up a spare keypad for the sole purpose of controlling the
system--you'd
> need one per zone. Instead of doing this, you'd probably want to
> install a system from the start with RS-232 control and/or paging
> inputs.
>
> It would be really nice if Russound added RS-232 to the AH484 hub. I
> don't think it would be difficult at all, since the hub already has
the
> ability to control all zones (actions currently triggered by received
> IR). Maybe I should try to talk to their product development guys, as
> this is the one gaping hole in the A-Bus product line preventing it
> from scaling up to sophisticated systems. Or perhaps they don't have
an
> interest in improving A-Bus to the point where it would cannibalize
> their higher-profit CA-series products.
>
> Anyway, if your sources are PC-based (i.e. FM tuner cards, streaming
> MP3s, etc) or can be run through a PC, you can emulate paging by
> briefly switching the sound cards' output to your announcements. But
> this still doesn't give you a way to turn a zone on/off remotely.

[jpkishere@hotmail.com]

So I wrote to their tech support and got the following answer.. I
guess it is an answer but not a helpful one to me.. I don't think they
have really done any advancements on their abus line in a couple of
years, I wondering if it isn't that great of a line, or as Mark
mentioned they just don't want to impede the CAV/CAM line as mentioned
below:


Hi, Jeremy,



There are no plans to interface the A-H484 through a serial connector.
We do have the CAV/CAM series which would work better for that
application.



I'm sure there would be ways to interrupt all sources and turn on
keypads, but it would be terribly complicated and troublesome.



Best Regards,

David Adams

Russound Corporation

Technical Support

http://www.russound.com



jpkishere@hotmail.com wrote:
> Yeah that is what I was figuring.. I like the CAV stuff, but way
more
> expensive -- for now I'll probably sttick with the abus stuff since
it
> seems to work with the higher end stuff too..
>
> Let me know if you talk to them, would be very interested if they had
a
> serial interface -- the way I see it, that is the only thing really
> lacking..
>
> thanks
> jpk
> Mark Thomas wrote:
> > You can use IR, but the problem is that the IR inputs are at the
> > keypads only. There is no IR injector at the A-Bus hub. And the IR
> zone
> > is determined by which keypad received the IR, so you can't just
hook
> > up a spare keypad for the sole purpose of controlling the
> system--you'd
> > need one per zone. Instead of doing this, you'd probably want to
> > install a system from the start with RS-232 control and/or paging
> > inputs.
> >
> > It would be really nice if Russound added RS-232 to the AH484 hub.
I
> > don't think it would be difficult at all, since the hub already has
> the
> > ability to control all zones (actions currently triggered by
received
> > IR). Maybe I should try to talk to their product development guys,
as
> > this is the one gaping hole in the A-Bus product line preventing it
> > from scaling up to sophisticated systems. Or perhaps they don't
have
> an
> > interest in improving A-Bus to the point where it would cannibalize
> > their higher-profit CA-series products.
> >
> > Anyway, if your sources are PC-based (i.e. FM tuner cards,
streaming
> > MP3s, etc) or can be run through a PC, you can emulate paging by
> > briefly switching the sound cards' output to your announcements.
But
> > this still doesn't give you a way to turn a zone on/off remotely.

[Mark Thomas]

> I don't think they
> have really done any advancements on their abus line in a couple of
> years, I wondering if it isn't that great of a line, or as Mark
> mentioned they just don't want to impede the CAV/CAM line as
mentioned
> below:

The issue here is that A-Bus is not Russound's technology. They license
A-Bus from an Australian company named Leisuretech. And so do
competitors--there are several other companies in the U.S. licensing
A-Bus technology including ChannelVision, FutureSmart, and OnQ. No new
A-Bus product can come to market without Leisuretech's blessing. So
perhaps it's Leisuretech you'd need to ask.

Here's an interview with the managing director of LeisureTech:
http://www.ce-pro.com/default.asp?NodeId=1993

According to that, they will be coming out with amplified A-Bus
speakers to which you only need to run a Cat5. This would eliminate
speaker wire entirely. Interesting, as you'd be able to run as many
speakers as you want on one zone without having to worry about placing
external amps.

- Mark.

[jpkishere@hotmail.com]

Mark,

Thanks for the suggestion, just sent an email to LeisureTech, we will
see where that gets me..

Not to change the subject, but since I will still go with the Russound
stuff regardless of what happens below; can anyone recommend some
speakers that are useful..

I searched the board and see people have recommended from $50/pair to
$500 each.. These will be strictly used for background music and since
I plan on installing about 20 speakers, 500/ea seems steep..

A few people have recommended the AudioSource ICS6 and also a few
people have said the Dayton Audio from PartsExpress or Amazon sound
good for background music..

Thanks
jeremy
Mark Thomas wrote:
> > I don't think they
> > have really done any advancements on their abus line in a couple of
> > years, I wondering if it isn't that great of a line, or as Mark
> > mentioned they just don't want to impede the CAV/CAM line as
> mentioned
> > below:
>
> The issue here is that A-Bus is not Russound's technology. They
license
> A-Bus from an Australian company named Leisuretech. And so do
> competitors--there are several other companies in the U.S. licensing
> A-Bus technology including ChannelVision, FutureSmart, and OnQ. No
new
> A-Bus product can come to market without Leisuretech's blessing. So
> perhaps it's Leisuretech you'd need to ask.
>
> Here's an interview with the managing director of LeisureTech:
> http://www.ce-pro.com/default.asp?NodeId=1993
>
> According to that, they will be coming out with amplified A-Bus
> speakers to which you only need to run a Cat5. This would eliminate
> speaker wire entirely. Interesting, as you'd be able to run as many
> speakers as you want on one zone without having to worry about
placing
> external amps.
>
> - Mark.

[Robert L. Bass]

> Not to change the subject, but since I will still go with the Russound
> stuff regardless of what happens below; can anyone recommend some
> speakers that are useful...

Proficient Audio. I use them in my own house and I'm planning to install
them throughout my next house. I sell these online in case you're
interested.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

[wkearney99]

I believe A-Bus was never Russound's own technology but some Australian
firm.

I'd likewise prefer to have something "in-between" the A-Bus and CAV line.


<jpkishere@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1106754313.949798.135670@c13g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com...
> So I wrote to their tech support and got the following answer.. I
> guess it is an answer but not a helpful one to me.. I don't think they
> have really done any advancements on their abus line in a couple of
> years, I wondering if it isn't that great of a line, or as Mark
> mentioned they just don't want to impede the CAV/CAM line as mentioned
> below:

[Robert L. Bass]

> I believe A-Bus was never Russound's own
> technology but some Australian firm.

That's correct. Russound and several other firms pay LeisureTech
Electronics for the right to use the technology.

> I'd likewise prefer to have something
> "in-between" the A-Bus and CAV line.

Have you looked at the Russound CA series? These are similar to the CAV but
without video distribution.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

[jpkishere@hotmail.com]

Robert,

What kind of pricing are we looking for for the CA series, the reason I
like the a-bus stuff so much is it is relatively cheap.. I also read a
review in a magazine recently that said there are some third party
add-ons to use it as an intercom system; but of course they don't say
what they are..

Going to try and email the author and see if it is true or just a
typo...

Robert L. Bass wrote:
> > I believe A-Bus was never Russound's own
> > technology but some Australian firm.
>
> That's correct. Russound and several other firms pay LeisureTech
> Electronics for the right to use the technology.
>
> > I'd likewise prefer to have something
> > "in-between" the A-Bus and CAV line.
>
> Have you looked at the Russound CA series? These are similar to the
CAV but
> without video distribution.
>
> --
>
> Regards,
> Robert L Bass
>
> =============================>
> Bass Home Electronics
> 2291 Pine View Circle
> Sarasota · Florida · 34231
> 877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
> http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
> =============================>

[Robert L Bass]

> Robert,
>
> What kind of pricing are we looking for for
> the CA series...

It's more than A-BUS of course. Here's a link (my website) to pricing and
info.
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com/subcategory_144.htm

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

===========================>
Bass Burglar Alarms
http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com
http://www.Bass-Home.com
===========================>

[indecision]

Mark,

You mentioned earlier in the thread that there is a hack of some kind
to get around the lack of rs-232 in an A-bus system for use in home
automation setups. Where could I find more info on this?

I've had an A-bus system installed for about two years in my home and
we love it. Lately I have been looking for a little more control
without replacing the whole system. Any guidance is greatly
appreciated.

Davis


--
indecision
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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View this thread: http://www.hometechforum.com/showthread.php?t=7274

[Mark Thomas]

indecision wrote:
> You mentioned earlier in the thread that there is a hack of some kind
> to get around the lack of rs-232 in an A-bus system for use in home
> automation setups. Where could I find more info on this?

Right here in this post. :)

> I've had an A-bus system installed for about two years in my home and
> we love it. Lately I have been looking for a little more control
> without replacing the whole system.

If you are patient, you can wait for the RS-232 controlled A-Bus hubs.
Leisuretech USA tells me they're coming (no release date known yet as
it's still early in the product cycle).

The hack I referred to is basically this (for one-source systems):
1. Get an additional a-bus keypad with IR-in.
2. Get an Ocelot
(http://www.homeautomationnet.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=68)
3. Connect an IR flasher from the Ocelot to the keypad's ir sensor.
4. Teach the Ocelot the IR codes from the remote.
5. Use RS-232 to send a-bus commands via the Ocelot.

The Ocelot is a controller in itself, so you don't even need a PC to
have it react to events and issue A-Bus commands. But many commercial
and open-source software products are capable of talking to the Ocelot.

If you had a multisource system (Russound AH-484) it's a little more
complicated because each keypad controls only one zone, and the IR
codes are the same for each zone. So you'd need four additional keypads
as well as an Ocelot add-on for zoned IR
(http://www.homeautomationnet.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=240). It's
doable, but quite expensive: you're buying full keypads with amps only
for the IR sensor they contain. If someone reverse-engineers A-Bus and
figures out how IR is digitized (or even IF it is digitized) and sent,
then this option gets much cheaper.

- Mark.

[indecision]

Mark,

Thanks for the response. Good news about the LeisureTech rs-232
products.

I am familiar with the Ocelot and figured that I would have to do a
zoned IR system with a flasher running to each of my 8 keypads (single
source or single -zone system) to have individual control over each
unit. I am afraid that you lost me in regards to adding the additional
keypad to work with the Ocelot. This would still only allow me to
control that individual keypad, correct? This would have no bearing on
the other eight, right?

Davis

[Mark Thomas]

Yes, unfortunately the only way to get _complete_ control (i.e.
remotely control volume in each zone) is to run a flasher to each
keypad. The Ocelot and the zoned IR add-on would still be necessary.

Or, of course, upgrading to system that uses the same wiring (cat5 to
amplified keypads) but provides full RS232 control, such as Zon
(http://www.zonaudio.com/home/home.php).

[Frank Mc Alinden]

Hi Guys

A little late in replying .......
Is it not possible to inject zoned ir into each keypad back at the controller ???

I designed a little circuit which a guy in the UK is using to inject ir into the wiring of his Multizone Kustom Amp to control each zone via his ha controller Homevision........

Dont suppose they would part with the details of the zone rj45 connector to see if modulated ir injection is possible ???

Heres a link to my interface which i use to interface to my cbus ir unit
Didnt actually get to test it on a Kustom Setup......

http://tinyurl.com/a28og

Really like the keypad ....Is this system expensive ???

Frank