Pre-wired house- Need help with A/V Distribution with CAV6.6

[Eric]

I am just starting to get into some of this stuff because I have bought a
new house which was pre-wired for whole house A/V distribution.

The builder tried to sell me a $15,000 Elan system that I thought was more
than I needed and more than I needed to spend and I didn't like the
proprietary programming aspect of Elan. So he left me with just the wiring,
which I assumed was fairly standard. (The house was 90% done when I bought
it so the wiring had already been done.)

After some research in this forum and elsewhere, I decided to order the
Russound CAV6.6 and at least make an attempt to do hook it up myself. But
now that I have just begun reading the manual, I fear I have a major problem
in the keypad wiring. (FYI, I am using UNO S1's because the boxes installed
were already single gang but that is not the problem)

The house seems to be wired like this..... In-ceiling speakers go to the
keypad station on the wall in each zone and then Cat 5E is run from the
Keypad station to the media closet. All the coax goes to the Media Closet
of course.

It appears to me that the CAV needs all the speaker wires to go to the media
room also. Is this correct?

Any ideas on how to deal with this or what system I should be looking at
that has the speaker hook-ups at the keypad?

Thanks for your help,
Eric

[Brett Griffin]

Unfortunately, you need a lower end system. Russound, like many other
Multi-zoned Multi-Source audio distribution systems do require speakers
wires directly to the speakers and cat-5 to the volume controls.

Your home was wired with A-Bus in mind. Good news is that it is cheaper
than the CAV, bad news it is not a good multisource going to multi zones.
It is really a single source to multi zone, although are working on more
sources...

You need 4 extra conductors ideally 16/14/12 gauge stranded speaker cables,
for the speakers. If all you have is cat5 between the volume control and
the amp, than what you have with a CAV is a very expensive paper weight.

You should look for a-Bus system, contact your distributor to see if you can
exchange your CAV. If not contact me, I have several jobs coming up that I
have a CAV spec'd in, I could help you out, if the distributor will not.


--
Brett Griffin, Technology Consultant
Architechtronics, Inc.
get to know home technology

*Home of "fidoh" for HAI/OnQ/Aegis
http://www.architechtronics.com/products_software.html

**keep up on cutting-edge technology... join "the EDGE" for free at
http://www.architectronics.com/edge.html





"Eric" <eric3@cybnic.com> wrote in message
news:3IidnbG1qpl1NVXfRVn-1Q@comcast.com...
> I am just starting to get into some of this stuff because I have bought a
> new house which was pre-wired for whole house A/V distribution.
>
> The builder tried to sell me a $15,000 Elan system that I thought was more
> than I needed and more than I needed to spend and I didn't like the
> proprietary programming aspect of Elan. So he left me with just the
wiring,
> which I assumed was fairly standard. (The house was 90% done when I
bought
> it so the wiring had already been done.)
>
> After some research in this forum and elsewhere, I decided to order the
> Russound CAV6.6 and at least make an attempt to do hook it up myself. But
> now that I have just begun reading the manual, I fear I have a major
problem
> in the keypad wiring. (FYI, I am using UNO S1's because the boxes
installed
> were already single gang but that is not the problem)
>
> The house seems to be wired like this..... In-ceiling speakers go to the
> keypad station on the wall in each zone and then Cat 5E is run from the
> Keypad station to the media closet. All the coax goes to the Media Closet
> of course.
>
> It appears to me that the CAV needs all the speaker wires to go to the
media
> room also. Is this correct?
>
> Any ideas on how to deal with this or what system I should be looking at
> that has the speaker hook-ups at the keypad?
>
> Thanks for your help,
> Eric
>
>

[Robert L. Bass]

> The house seems to be wired like this..... In-ceiling speakers go to the
> keypad station on the wall in each zone and then Cat 5E is run from the
> Keypad station to the media closet. All the coax goes to the Media Closet
> of course.

That's definitely a problem. For the CAV6.6 you need home run speaker and
video cables. The wiring you have in place would likely fit an A-BUS
system. Unless you can run new cables you will not be able to use the
CAV6.6. If you got the CAV6.6 from my store, give me a call and I'll try to
arrange a replacement (assuming it's still new).

> It appears to me that the CAV needs all the speaker
> wires to go to the media room also. Is this correct?

Yes. That is correct.

> Any ideas on how to deal with this or what system I
> should be looking at that has the speaker hook-ups
> at the keypad?

As I mentioned above, you should be able to install an A-BUS system on the
cables you already have. Call if you need help.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

[Eric]

Thanks for your help guys. I have been doing some research to figure out
the best workaround for my problem before I decide to dump the CAV. I am
learning as I go, so forgive any dumb ideas or questions.

I get the impression that the CAV will work with A-Bus AKP2 keypads, no?

I know that would limit some features, but seems that it could still give me
choice of 4 sources in 4 zones? Am I on the right road or am I missing
something?

On another angle, I have looked into a few other systems, Sonance, Niles,
etc. and it appeared some keypads only required 6 wires of the 8 available
in the Cat 5e. Is it potentially feasible to use the other 2 to patch the
the speaker wire down to the media closet?

Thanks
Eric


"Robert L. Bass" <robertlbass@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:m7-dnUC06MiQX1TfRVn-sg@comcast.com...
> > The house seems to be wired like this..... In-ceiling speakers go to the
> > keypad station on the wall in each zone and then Cat 5E is run from the
> > Keypad station to the media closet. All the coax goes to the Media
Closet
> > of course.
>
> That's definitely a problem. For the CAV6.6 you need home run speaker and
> video cables. The wiring you have in place would likely fit an A-BUS
> system. Unless you can run new cables you will not be able to use the
> CAV6.6. If you got the CAV6.6 from my store, give me a call and I'll try
to
> arrange a replacement (assuming it's still new).
>
> > It appears to me that the CAV needs all the speaker
> > wires to go to the media room also. Is this correct?
>
> Yes. That is correct.
>
> > Any ideas on how to deal with this or what system I
> > should be looking at that has the speaker hook-ups
> > at the keypad?
>
> As I mentioned above, you should be able to install an A-BUS system on the
> cables you already have. Call if you need help.
>
> --
>
> Regards,
> Robert L Bass
>
> =============================>
> Bass Home Electronics
> 2291 Pine View Circle
> Sarasota · Florida · 34231
> 877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
> http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
> =============================>
>
>

[Mark Thomas]

Brett Griffin wrote:
> Your home was wired with A-Bus in mind.

Why do you say that? There are multiple whole-house audio systems with
amplified keypads. For example, the Zon system
(http://www.zonaudio.com/home/home.php) is quite nice and would work
fine with his existing wiring. Netstreams Musica
(http://www.netstreams.com/Products.aspx?ID=3) is another.

> Good news is that it is cheaper
> than the CAV, bad news it is not a good multisource going to multi zones.
> It is really a single source to multi zone, although are working on more
> sources...

Huh? What do you call the AH-484 (http://www.russound.com/ah484.htm)?
It's been available for a couple years now at least.

- Mark.

[Mark Thomas]

Eric wrote:
> Thanks for your help guys. I have been doing some research to figure out
> the best workaround for my problem before I decide to dump the CAV. I am
> learning as I go, so forgive any dumb ideas or questions.
>
> I get the impression that the CAV will work with A-Bus AKP2 keypads, no?
>
> I know that would limit some features, but seems that it could still give me
> choice of 4 sources in 4 zones? Am I on the right road or am I missing
> something?

You'd be better off turning the CAV back in and obtaining the AH-484.
The AH-484 is a lot cheaper and gives you 4 sources and 4 zones. Simply
daisy chain another AH-484 to get 8 zones. (And you can have up to two
keypads per zone).

> On another angle, I have looked into a few other systems, Sonance, Niles,
> etc. and it appeared some keypads only required 6 wires of the 8 available
> in the Cat 5e. Is it potentially feasible to use the other 2 to patch the
> the speaker wire down to the media closet?

Absolutely not! It can't handle the current from amplified audio.
There's a reason speaker wire is heavier gauge.

[Robert L. Bass]

> Thanks for your help guys. I have been doing some research to figure out
> the best workaround for my problem before I decide to dump the CAV. I am
> learning as I go, so forgive any dumb ideas or questions.
>
> I get the impression that the CAV will work with A-Bus AKP2 keypads, no?

Well, yes sort of. The CAV6.6 can have up to four A-BUS keypads which
function as slaves to the first four CAV zones. That is, the rooms served
with A-BUS will play whatever has been selected by the UNO keypad in the
controlling zone. A typical use for this is in a master bedroom / master
bath suite. The A-BUS keypad in the bathroom provides independant volume
control of the bathroom speakers while playing whatever music source has
been selected in the bedroom.

> I know that would limit some features, but seems that
> it could still give me choice of 4 sources in 4 zones?
> Am I on the right road or am I missing something?

You are correct, but for what you would get you may as well just go straight
to A-BUS. You won't be getting any benefit from the CAV.

> On another angle, I have looked into a few other systems,
> Sonance, Niles, etc. and it appeared some keypads only
> required 6 wires of the 8 available in the Cat 5e. Is it
> potentially feasible to use the other 2 to patch the the
> speaker wire down to the media closet?

It is, but you'd only have mono and the 24-gauge wire in the CAT5 cable
won't be able to carry much current.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

[Eric]

Mark,

I checked out some of your suggestions but they all seem to be just Audio.
I got the CAV because it has Video distribution also. How exactly would I
use your suggestions and get video too.

Thanks
Eric


"Mark Thomas" <mrt@thomaszone.com> wrote in message
news:1120594731.914339.9830@z14g2000cwz.googlegrou ps.com...
> Brett Griffin wrote:
> > Your home was wired with A-Bus in mind.
>
> Why do you say that? There are multiple whole-house audio systems with
> amplified keypads. For example, the Zon system
> (http://www.zonaudio.com/home/home.php) is quite nice and would work
> fine with his existing wiring. Netstreams Musica
> (http://www.netstreams.com/Products.aspx?ID=3) is another.
>
> > Good news is that it is cheaper
> > than the CAV, bad news it is not a good multisource going to multi
zones.
> > It is really a single source to multi zone, although are working on more
> > sources...
>
> Huh? What do you call the AH-484 (http://www.russound.com/ah484.htm)?
> It's been available for a couple years now at least.
>
> - Mark.
>