Multiple Screens, One Computer

[E. Lee Dickinson]

A few questions in this thread. The first:

I've been reading Dean R.'s posts about Charmed Quark, and I think I'm
leaning that way. Both because the software looks great, and because the
developer is obviously very active in the HA community. But I would like
some opinions of the strengths and weaknesses of CQC vs. HomeSeer?

The real question of this thread, though:

8" touchscreens for the automotive market are flooding Ebay for between 2
and 300 dollars (Unless someone has a line on a more economical screen?).
I've been thinking of a few of those -- kitchen, bedroom, living room.

What I want to know is, will the USB touch screen drivers and either of the
software packages (above) allow me to use multiple screens with one PC?
HomeSeer seems to use a web interface, so I figure I could just open
multiple browsers, one on each video card. But then there's the question of
the touchscreen drivers. I've had mulitple (3) screens on my PC for years,
but never a touch screen?

Am I making this more complicated than need me? I was thinking about some
Audreys as stand-alone interfaces, but the fact that so many people have
sold theirs and moved on to better interfaces makes me wary.

Thanks for any answers, advice, and commentary.

[Mick]

I have been playing with CQC for close to a month now and I am liking
it. Dean is very active in the forums and responds quickly to problems
requests. Just the other day I asked about a time and within the day he
wrote a driver for 16 timers, cant ask for better response than that.

One caveat - If you use CQC on multiple screens, you cant use the screen
blanker on the second monitor. I do my screen design and testing on a
dual head system with the design on the promary and the viewer
(interface) on the secondary screen. Hitting the power button (my term
for activating the screen blanker) will blank the primary but not the
secondary.

As for your USB touchscreen questions

I have no experience with them - sorry, but if you had two touch screens
installed your desktop is effectively 8:3 or 4:6 depending on your
orientation (maybe en=ven staggered as windows allows this). The driver
I expect would need to know where the second screen is in relation to
the first, unless that is built in to windows.

Sorry I cant help, just trying to shed some light on how things go together

Mick

E. Lee Dickinson wrote:
> A few questions in this thread. The first:
>
> I've been reading Dean R.'s posts about Charmed Quark, and I think I'm
> leaning that way. Both because the software looks great, and because the
> developer is obviously very active in the HA community. But I would like
> some opinions of the strengths and weaknesses of CQC vs. HomeSeer?
>
> The real question of this thread, though:
>
> 8" touchscreens for the automotive market are flooding Ebay for between 2
> and 300 dollars (Unless someone has a line on a more economical screen?).
> I've been thinking of a few of those -- kitchen, bedroom, living room.
>
> What I want to know is, will the USB touch screen drivers and either of the
> software packages (above) allow me to use multiple screens with one PC?
> HomeSeer seems to use a web interface, so I figure I could just open
> multiple browsers, one on each video card. But then there's the question of
> the touchscreen drivers. I've had mulitple (3) screens on my PC for years,
> but never a touch screen?
>
> Am I making this more complicated than need me? I was thinking about some
> Audreys as stand-alone interfaces, but the fact that so many people have
> sold theirs and moved on to better interfaces makes me wary.
>
> Thanks for any answers, advice, and commentary.
>
>

[Tech-Home]

Dean is very active and responsive to his customers. This is where
Homeseer is lacking as it lets is user base support customers.

Both products are coming out with new releases that are supposed to be
much better. Charmed is going to add more for Home Automation. Homeseer
is under a complete rewrite. I'll bet Charmed will be out first.

I do own both but mainly use Homeseer because of the Way2Call and Web
Interface. But I'm finding myself moving everything over to the Elk M1.
I don't use any touch screens. I didn't find a viewsonic 1000 very
feasible in my setup. It was nosiy and bulky. The in car screens do
look nice and I may look more into these when I remodel my kitchen.

I tell everyone to try them both out because not one suits everyones
needs the best.

Brian
http://tech-home.com



Mick wrote:
> I have been playing with CQC for close to a month now and I am liking
> it. Dean is very active in the forums and responds quickly to problems
> requests. Just the other day I asked about a time and within the day he
> wrote a driver for 16 timers, cant ask for better response than that.
>
> One caveat - If you use CQC on multiple screens, you cant use the screen
> blanker on the second monitor. I do my screen design and testing on a
> dual head system with the design on the promary and the viewer
> (interface) on the secondary screen. Hitting the power button (my term
> for activating the screen blanker) will blank the primary but not the
> secondary.
>
> As for your USB touchscreen questions
>
> I have no experience with them - sorry, but if you had two touch screens
> installed your desktop is effectively 8:3 or 4:6 depending on your
> orientation (maybe en=ven staggered as windows allows this). The driver
> I expect would need to know where the second screen is in relation to
> the first, unless that is built in to windows.
>
> Sorry I cant help, just trying to shed some light on how things go together
>
> Mick
>
> E. Lee Dickinson wrote:
> > A few questions in this thread. The first:
> >
> > I've been reading Dean R.'s posts about Charmed Quark, and I think I'm
> > leaning that way. Both because the software looks great, and because the
> > developer is obviously very active in the HA community. But I would like
> > some opinions of the strengths and weaknesses of CQC vs. HomeSeer?
> >
> > The real question of this thread, though:
> >
> > 8" touchscreens for the automotive market are flooding Ebay for between 2
> > and 300 dollars (Unless someone has a line on a more economical screen?).
> > I've been thinking of a few of those -- kitchen, bedroom, living room.
> >
> > What I want to know is, will the USB touch screen drivers and either of the
> > software packages (above) allow me to use multiple screens with one PC?
> > HomeSeer seems to use a web interface, so I figure I could just open
> > multiple browsers, one on each video card. But then there's the question of
> > the touchscreen drivers. I've had mulitple (3) screens on my PC for years,
> > but never a touch screen?
> >
> > Am I making this more complicated than need me? I was thinking about some
> > Audreys as stand-alone interfaces, but the fact that so many people have
> > sold theirs and moved on to better interfaces makes me wary.
> >
> > Thanks for any answers, advice, and commentary.
> >
> >

[Bill Kearney]

> What I want to know is, will the USB touch screen drivers and either of the
> software packages (above) allow me to use multiple screens with one PC?

Not really. While the OS does support more than one output, it can be a
real pain in the ass to having things act independently on each of them.
For one, the screen saver's going to work on ALL of them at once. But
other things like centered dialog boxes (ok/cancel style) won't know
"which" screen to show themselves on.

It is possible to purchase commercial software that will let you run
more than one "PC" at a time on the same machine. Sort of terminals with
one display and one input device per session. Can't recall the name of
it. But as I recall it was a bit of a pain in the ass to setup and use.

It might be possible to cobble up something using Linux but it'll take
waaaaay too long to get all the x-windows and usb driver foolishness
sorted out.

But more fundamentally you have to deal with USB and VGA distance
limits. There's only so far you can run the wires needed. Sure,
various amps, baluns and/or repeaters could be used but they're NOT
cheap (certainly more than whole other touchscreen PCs).

> Am I making this more complicated than need me? I was thinking about some
> Audreys as stand-alone interfaces, but the fact that so many people have
> sold theirs and moved on to better interfaces makes me wary.

I use a couple of touchscreen PCs running 98 and the NetRemote program
to do most of my control.

Another angle might be to get some really tiny sort of PC and use it
with those screens. Then you could put the PC in some nearby out of the
way location and just run the USB and VGA cords to the screen. Some
Micro-ATX, bookshelf and other PCs are available in some pretty small
form-factors.

But trying to use more than one touchscreen display on just one PC
really won't work well enough. Trust me, I've tried.

-Bill Kearney

[Mark Thomas]

Bill Kearney wrote:
> It might be possible to cobble up something using Linux but it'll take
> waaaaay too long to get all the x-windows and usb driver foolishness
> sorted out.
> [...]
> But trying to use more than one touchscreen display on just one PC
> really won't work well enough. Trust me, I've tried.

Ah, but have you seen Rad I/O? (http://www.redradio.com/) That
eliminates the problem.

They have a board that takes a single screen and splits the signal up
into pieces that runs over Cat5 to multiple touchscreens.

You could simply run a browser in kiosk mode, split it into multiple
<iframe> sections and voila. Multiple, independent screens that can do
anything a web page, applet, or flash object can do. At CEDIA they
demoed eight screens each running a video.

-- Mark.

[Dave Houston]

"Mark Thomas" <mrt@thomaszone.com> wrote:

>
>Bill Kearney wrote:
>> It might be possible to cobble up something using Linux but it'll take
>> waaaaay too long to get all the x-windows and usb driver foolishness
>> sorted out.
>> [...]
>> But trying to use more than one touchscreen display on just one PC
>> really won't work well enough. Trust me, I've tried.
>
>Ah, but have you seen Rad I/O? (http://www.redradio.com/) That
>eliminates the problem.
>
>They have a board that takes a single screen and splits the signal up
>into pieces that runs over Cat5 to multiple touchscreens.
>
>You could simply run a browser in kiosk mode, split it into multiple
><iframe> sections and voila. Multiple, independent screens that can do
>anything a web page, applet, or flash object can do. At CEDIA they
>demoed eight screens each running a video.
>
>-- Mark.

Someone should tell them the definition of "quadrant".

I think the $350 Nokia 770 sounds like a better deal in terms of cost, size,
flexibility, etc.

[Mark Thomas]

Dave Houston wrote:
> Someone should tell them the definition of "quadrant".
>
> I think the $350 Nokia 770 sounds like a better deal in terms of cost, size,
> flexibility, etc.

At the current prices, yes. It's brand new and I think they're trying
to recoup some R&D. One of their folks said that once the products are
shipping in quantity, the price could drop substantially.

There is no processing in the screens, only on the server, so I imagine
the hardware cost is quite low.

I agree about the 770. But there is a market for inexpensive in-wall
touchscreens.

[Starwolf]

"Dave Houston" <nobody@whocares.com> wrote in message
news:429cacd8.149704452@nntp.fuse.net...
> "Mark Thomas" <mrt@thomaszone.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Bill Kearney wrote:
>>> It might be possible to cobble up something using Linux but it'll take
>>> waaaaay too long to get all the x-windows and usb driver foolishness
>>> sorted out.
>>> [...]
>>> But trying to use more than one touchscreen display on just one PC
>>> really won't work well enough. Trust me, I've tried.
>>
>>Ah, but have you seen Rad I/O? (http://www.redradio.com/) That
>>eliminates the problem.
>>
>>They have a board that takes a single screen and splits the signal up
>>into pieces that runs over Cat5 to multiple touchscreens.
>>
>>You could simply run a browser in kiosk mode, split it into multiple
>><iframe> sections and voila. Multiple, independent screens that can do
>>anything a web page, applet, or flash object can do. At CEDIA they
>>demoed eight screens each running a video.
>>
>>-- Mark.
>
> Someone should tell them the definition of "quadrant".
>
> I think the $350 Nokia 770 sounds like a better deal in terms of cost,
> size,
> flexibility, etc.

I've been watching this area as well.
http://www.ncoretech.com/mobilis/pdf/mobilisbrochure.pdf (~$200) and
www.pepper.com (~$800)are also interesting products.

[Dave Houston]

"Mark Thomas" <mrt@thomaszone.com> wrote:
>
>At the current prices, yes. It's brand new and I think they're trying
>to recoup some R&D. One of their folks said that once the products are
>shipping in quantity, the price could drop substantially.

Is he the same math whiz who thinks that dividing a rectangle into 8 smaller
rectangles makes 8 quadrants? Of course, that might explain the 'patent
pending' claim. ;)

>There is no processing in the screens, only on the server, so I imagine
>the hardware cost is quite low.

Pocket PC sized touchscreens are inexpensive. (Theirs look smaller.) What's
not clear to me is whether you need their $2500 PC or can just use their PCI
card and software. Still some PC is needed so the total cost needs to
include that.

There's also the need for CAT5 which means it's not as retrofittable as
wireless.

>I agree about the 770. But there is a market for inexpensive in-wall
>touchscreens.

I think the 770 may make a good in-wall (or on-wall) touchscreen. All it
needs is a 5V(?) supply.

And it depends on the definition of "inexpensive".

[Robert L. Bass]

> Dean is very active and responsive to his
> customers. This is where Homeseer is
> lacking as it lets is user base support
> customers.

I have to disagree with you this time. HomeSeer is in fact quite responsive
to customer needs. They just don't usually participate in this newsgroup
due to the level of noise from certain individuals. HS runs an excellent
forum with threads on practically every aspect of HA. They answer
tech-support questions on the forum where everyone can read them rather than
repeat the same information to hundreds of customers.

> I tell everyone to try them both out
> because not one suits everyones needs
> the best.

Agreed. Both offer a free trial and it's certainly wise to give each a test
drive.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

[Tech-Home]

Robert,

I've been a HS user for several years I bought it for 79. Retail. And
had issues that were ignored. 2 major issues that were ignored because
the first fix didn't work. Finally Way2Call works half way decent
although it still cuts people off. I had a 300.00 answering machine
that would constantly lock up the phone line. I'm not trying to bash HS
on this but when comparing customer issues to CharmedQuark they are
lacking.

Almost all the 3rd party script writters are great and offer great
support. I own sereval plugins and happy that HS moved to the system.

I've never seen you post on HS board. As I'm a very frequent poster and
browse way more then this newsgroup.

Do you use HS?


I feel HS has moved towards the installers rather then the users. Can't
say that I blame them though its a business decision. I do understand
it takes too much time to monitor/post on newsgroups and wouldn't
expect them to do so.

I'm eagerly awaiting 2.0 with hopes the rewrite will make everything
function better together.

Brian
http://tech-home.com

[Robert L. Bass]

> I've never seen you post on HS board. As I'm a
> very frequent poster and browse way more then
> this newsgroup.

I only post there occasionally. There are certain topics that interest me
and where I have a degree of expertise. The rest I leave to folks more
knowledgeable.

> Do you use HS?

I installed it to test functionality several years ago. I'm not currently
using it.

> I feel HS has moved towards the installers
> rather then the users. Can't say that I blame
> them though its a business decision...

They have good reason to do so. Most DIYers buy one or two systems in a
lifetime. Large dealers buy several systems a week.

> I do understand it takes too much time to
> monitor/post on newsgroups and wouldn't
> expect them to do so.

It's not because of the time requirement. RH got fed up with the yahoos who
post so much trash and offer no help to anyone. Most manufacturers' reps
and engineers I've spoken with have vboiced similar attitudes. Look at the
recent spate of garbage posted here by a few characters from the alarm
newsgroup. They don't want to wade through that.

> I'm eagerly awaiting 2.0 with hopes the rewrite
> will make everything function better together.

I'm waiting for a good deal on a new home in Salvador so I have an excuse to
install the new ELK panel. :^)

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
2291 Pine View Circle
Sarasota · Florida · 34231
877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>

[Dmitri]

E. Lee Dickinson wrote:




> A few questions in this thread. The first:

> I've been reading Dean R.'s posts about Charmed Quark, and I think I'm
> leaning that way. Both because the software looks great, and because
> the
> developer is obviously very active in the HA community. But I would
> like
> some opinions of the strengths and weaknesses of CQC vs. HomeSeer?

> The real question of this thread, though:

> 8" touchscreens for the automotive market are flooding Ebay for
> between 2
> and 300 dollars (Unless someone has a line on a more economical
> screen?).
> I've been thinking of a few of those -- kitchen, bedroom, living room.

> What I want to know is, will the USB touch screen drivers and either of
> the
> software packages (above) allow me to use multiple screens with one PC?

> HomeSeer seems to use a web interface, so I figure I could just open
> multiple browsers, one on each video card. But then there's the
> question of
> the touchscreen drivers. I've had mulitple (3) screens on my PC for
> years,
> but never a touch screen?

> Am I making this more complicated than need me? I was thinking about
> some
> Audreys as stand-alone interfaces, but the fact that so many people
> have
> sold theirs and moved on to better interfaces makes me wary.

> Thanks for any answers, advice, and commentary.


One of the things you should also consider is distance limitations: you
cannot just simply hook up a monitor and especially a USB 2.0 device to a
computer hundred feet away. Some sort of conversion to balanced signal and
a network of CAT5e UTP cables should run to the screen locations. They
actually make KVM-over-CAT5 switches, but in this case all your screens
except one that's currently active, will be dark until you switch to that
screen by pressing a sequence of buttons (which seems almost impossible on
a dark touch-screen to me)
--
Dmitri Abaimov, RCDD
http://www.cabling-design.com
Cabling Forum, color codes, pinouts and other useful resources for
premises cabling users and pros
http://www.cabling-design.com/homecabling
Residential Cabling Guide
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