speaker placement

[Jim Johnson]

Hi Everyone,

I was looking around on the Dolby site a bit and have a few questions
concerning speaker placement. For the left and right surround speakers -
should they be pointed towards you listening position or to the left and
right of your listening position pointing forward? Also in their diagrams
(Dolby's) they have the sub inside (between) the left and right fronts. All
of the other diagrams I've seen (manuals etc.) place the sub outside the
left and right fronts. I know the sub placement is subjective, but just
wondered why Dolby suggest placement between the two fronts. Any comments?
Thanks

Jim

[David B.]

Jim Johnson wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I was looking around on the Dolby site a bit and have a few questions
> concerning speaker placement. For the left and right surround speakers -
> should they be pointed towards you listening position or to the left and
> right of your listening position pointing forward?

It depends. Do you have the AVIA disk and an SPL meter? Using the in
phase/out of phase tones and an SPL meter, you can determine how best to
position speakers. I can post that info if anyone is interested.

Also in their diagrams
> (Dolby's) they have the sub inside (between) the left and right fronts. All
> of the other diagrams I've seen (manuals etc.) place the sub outside the
> left and right fronts. I know the sub placement is subjective, but just
> wondered why Dolby suggest placement between the two fronts. Any comments?

Freq sweep (using individual freqs) and an SPL meter is the second
cheapest way that I know of to find the right position.
The cheapest way is to put the sub in the primary listening position and
crawl around the floor. When you find the spot where the sub sounds
it's best, that's where it should go.
The benefit to the second cheapest way is finding out if you would
benefit from sub EQ.

Have fun,
David

[Uptown Audio]

That is a matter of taste really. The main speakers can be angled
either way or somewhere in-between. Most people have them toed-in some
towards the main seating area. Just try it both ways and see what you
feel sounds best. I suggest listening to music to do this.
The sub will sound best when placed as near as possible to the center
of the front speakers or the video monitor. This is true for both
music and effects as it serves as a mono source for the music and
locates the LFE info near the action for movies. The center position
may not give the highest output levels in relation to other locations,
but it will sound best. You should have plenty of reserve power there
so you can place it where it sounds best rather than worry about
output levels.
-Bill
www.uptownaudio.com
Roanoke VA
(540) 343-1250

"Jim Johnson" <dogman56@msn.com> wrote in message
news:116kc1m3r128u5c@corp.supernews.com...
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I was looking around on the Dolby site a bit and have a few
> questions concerning speaker placement. For the left and right
> surround speakers - should they be pointed towards you listening
> position or to the left and right of your listening position
> pointing forward? Also in their diagrams (Dolby's) they have the sub
> inside (between) the left and right fronts. All of the other
> diagrams I've seen (manuals etc.) place the sub outside the left and
> right fronts. I know the sub placement is subjective, but just
> wondered why Dolby suggest placement between the two fronts. Any
> comments? Thanks
>
> Jim
>
>
>

[David B.]

Uptown Audio wrote:
> The sub will sound best when placed as near as possible to the center
> of the front speakers or the video monitor. This is true for both
> music and effects as it serves as a mono source for the music and
> locates the LFE info near the action for movies.
> -Bill

Sorry, Bill. This is utter nonsense. The room has a tremendous
influence on sound. If you just abitrarily assign a spot that sounds
"best," you're ignoring the room completely.

David

[neilnewsgroups@hotmail.com]

David B. wrote:
> Jim Johnson wrote:
> > Hi Everyone,
> >
> > I was looking around on the Dolby site a bit and have a few
questions
> > concerning speaker placement. For the left and right surround
speakers -
> > should they be pointed towards you listening position or to the
left and
> > right of your listening position pointing forward?
>
> It depends. Do you have the AVIA disk and an SPL meter? Using the
in
> phase/out of phase tones and an SPL meter, you can determine how best
to
> position speakers. I can post that info if anyone is interested.
>
> Also in their diagrams
> > (Dolby's) they have the sub inside (between) the left and right
fronts. All
> > of the other diagrams I've seen (manuals etc.) place the sub
outside the
> > left and right fronts. I know the sub placement is subjective,

Ideally, the sub should be playing only at frequencies so low that it
should be very hard to know where the sub is, just from listening. But
many people (including me) have minispeakers around the room, so the
sub has to cross over at a higher-than-ideal frequency and it may still
be possible to know where the sub is, unless you place it near or
between the front speakers, which is what I do.

>>but just
> > wondered why Dolby suggest placement between the two fronts. Any
comments?
>
> Freq sweep (using individual freqs) and an SPL meter is the second
> cheapest way that I know of to find the right position.
> The cheapest way is to put the sub in the primary listening position
and
> crawl around the floor. When you find the spot where the sub
sounds
> it's best, that's where it should go.

An excellent tip. IOW, put the sub in the chair or wherever you mostly
listen, then play music through your speakers and sub. Then walk or
crawl around the room as you listen. When you hear the best sound from
your sub, switch places with your sub.

> The benefit to the second cheapest way is finding out if you would
> benefit from sub EQ.
>
> Have fun,
> David

[RicSeyler]

The sub should go where produces the tightest sound.
And it is nice if that happens to be between the front mains...
The big giant sub soundwave reflecting off of walls, ceiling and floor
is what causes less than desirable results from you and your guests
seating position.
General rule of thumb, if possible avoid placing in in a corner and try
to get it out
away from walls (behind and sides). Another trick for dampening your
room for a sub
is to sit in the listening position have a mirror held against the
ceiling, (level) have someone move
the mirror around until you can see the reflection of the sub, that area
will benefit from damping
sheets/material, the same for all the walls, and you can then do it from
guest positions.

Placing the sub in the listening position and crawling around will also
show trouble spots.
That can be a hassle with long sub leads and extension cords.

There are also relativity modest priced "sub isolators" which you place
the sub on to disconnect
it from the room structure. There are also special tubes you can place
around the sub the will help
tune the room for the low frequencies. With sub frequencies, the room
structure and materials actually
becomes a soundboard, making the sub boomy, muddy, unpleasant and
isolated where you can
locate the sub with your ears in the surround soundfield.

Jim Johnson wrote:

>Hi Everyone,
>
>I was looking around on the Dolby site a bit and have a few questions
>concerning speaker placement. For the left and right surround speakers -
>should they be pointed towards you listening position or to the left and
>right of your listening position pointing forward? Also in their diagrams
>(Dolby's) they have the sub inside (between) the left and right fronts. All
>of the other diagrams I've seen (manuals etc.) place the sub outside the
>left and right fronts. I know the sub placement is subjective, but just
>wondered why Dolby suggest placement between the two fronts. Any comments?
>Thanks
>
>Jim
>
>
>
>
>

--
Ric Seyler

[Uptown Audio]

Sorry dave, but you can't just ignore the primary wave of sound
eminating from the main speakers location. Try it any way that you see
fit, but if you have decent hearing, you will be able to locate the
sub unless it is placed as near to exactly between the speakers as is
practical. The only way around this (and it's admittedly better, but
more expensive) is to use two subs at side of the main speakers or
better yet, full range mains that do not require a sub. This is for
music reproduction. I understand that you can max out a subs output by
finding the boomiest darn spot in the room to place it, but I am not
talking about just shaking the walls, but producing good sound. Even
movies have musical scores, so it is best for even a dedicated theater
when you primarily listen to music eslewhere. Even effects can have
sounds that make the sub location quite obvious if it is not on the
front wall. The best way to avoid those issues if you do have to place
it elsewhere (certainly not everyone can place their sub on the front
wall) is to keep the crossover as low as possible so it is a true sub.
That requires some rather large main speakers however. Thanks for the
well thought-out reply and the compliment though...
-Bill
www.uptownaudio.com
Roanoke VA
(540) 343-1250

"David B." <dsbalfoo@syr.edu> wrote in message
news:426adc55$0$119$143e8eca@news.syr.edu...
> Uptown Audio wrote:
>> The sub will sound best when placed as near as possible to the
>> center of the front speakers or the video monitor. This is true for
>> both music and effects as it serves as a mono source for the music
>> and locates the LFE info near the action for movies. -Bill
>
> Sorry, Bill. This is utter nonsense. The room has a tremendous
> influence on sound. If you just abitrarily assign a spot that
> sounds "best," you're ignoring the room completely.
>
> David

[steve]

I don't know who said it, but if you can hear where your sub is, it
isn't really a sub, just a woofer.

Uptown Audio wrote:
>
> Sorry dave, but you can't just ignore the primary wave of sound
> eminating from the main speakers location. Try it any way that you see
> fit, but if you have decent hearing, you will be able to locate the
> sub unless it is placed as near to exactly between the speakers as is
> practical. The only way around this (and it's admittedly better, but
> more expensive) is to use two subs at side of the main speakers or
> better yet, full range mains that do not require a sub. This is for
> music reproduction. I understand that you can max out a subs output by
> finding the boomiest darn spot in the room to place it, but I am not
> talking about just shaking the walls, but producing good sound. Even
> movies have musical scores, so it is best for even a dedicated theater
> when you primarily listen to music eslewhere. Even effects can have
> sounds that make the sub location quite obvious if it is not on the
> front wall. The best way to avoid those issues if you do have to place
> it elsewhere (certainly not everyone can place their sub on the front
> wall) is to keep the crossover as low as possible so it is a true sub.
> That requires some rather large main speakers however. Thanks for the
> well thought-out reply and the compliment though...
> -Bill
> www.uptownaudio.com
> Roanoke VA
> (540) 343-1250
>
> "David B." <dsbalfoo@syr.edu> wrote in message
> news:426adc55$0$119$143e8eca@news.syr.edu...
> > Uptown Audio wrote:
> >> The sub will sound best when placed as near as possible to the
> >> center of the front speakers or the video monitor. This is true for
> >> both music and effects as it serves as a mono source for the music
> >> and locates the LFE info near the action for movies. -Bill
> >
> > Sorry, Bill. This is utter nonsense. The room has a tremendous
> > influence on sound. If you just abitrarily assign a spot that
> > sounds "best," you're ignoring the room completely.
> >
> > David

[Cyrus]

In article <4272DB86.9CF9A186@yahoo.com>, steve <combssl@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> I don't know who said it, but if you can hear where your sub is, it
> isn't really a sub, just a woofer.
>


This can also be attributed to poor tuning/integration and/or design of
the sub. More of the human's fault than the sub's. Depending on the sub
of course.

--
Cyrus

*coughcasaucedoprodigynetcough*

[Uptown Audio]

Or set-up so that it acts as such. Unfortunately, that's the case with
99% of all set-ups as the x-over frequency is too high. Even massive,
full-range, main speakers rarely go below 35hz and while that should
be low enough to go relatively unlocatable, it is still not
"subsonic". It it were truely subsonic, you would not hear it at all,
but feel it.
-Bill
www.uptownaudio.com
Roanoke VA
(540) 343-1250

"steve" <combssl@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4272DB86.9CF9A186@yahoo.com...
>I don't know who said it, but if you can hear where your sub is, it
> isn't really a sub, just a woofer.
>
> Uptown Audio wrote:
>>
>> Sorry dave, but you can't just ignore the primary wave of sound
>> eminating from the main speakers location. Try it any way that you
>> see
>> fit, but if you have decent hearing, you will be able to locate the
>> sub unless it is placed as near to exactly between the speakers as
>> is
>> practical. The only way around this (and it's admittedly better,
>> but
>> more expensive) is to use two subs at side of the main speakers or
>> better yet, full range mains that do not require a sub. This is for
>> music reproduction. I understand that you can max out a subs output
>> by
>> finding the boomiest darn spot in the room to place it, but I am
>> not
>> talking about just shaking the walls, but producing good sound.
>> Even
>> movies have musical scores, so it is best for even a dedicated
>> theater
>> when you primarily listen to music eslewhere. Even effects can have
>> sounds that make the sub location quite obvious if it is not on the
>> front wall. The best way to avoid those issues if you do have to
>> place
>> it elsewhere (certainly not everyone can place their sub on the
>> front
>> wall) is to keep the crossover as low as possible so it is a true
>> sub.
>> That requires some rather large main speakers however. Thanks for
>> the
>> well thought-out reply and the compliment though...
>> -Bill
>> www.uptownaudio.com
>> Roanoke VA
>> (540) 343-1250
>>
>> "David B." <dsbalfoo@syr.edu> wrote in message
>> news:426adc55$0$119$143e8eca@news.syr.edu...
>> > Uptown Audio wrote:
>> >> The sub will sound best when placed as near as possible to the
>> >> center of the front speakers or the video monitor. This is true
>> >> for
>> >> both music and effects as it serves as a mono source for the
>> >> music
>> >> and locates the LFE info near the action for movies. -Bill
>> >
>> > Sorry, Bill. This is utter nonsense. The room has a tremendous
>> > influence on sound. If you just abitrarily assign a spot that
>> > sounds "best," you're ignoring the room completely.
>> >
>> > David

[Bill]

Cyrus wrote:

>In article <4272DB86.9CF9A186@yahoo.com>, steve <combssl@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>> I don't know who said it, but if you can hear where your sub is, it
>> isn't really a sub, just a woofer.
>
>This can also be attributed to poor tuning/integration and/or design of
>the sub. More of the human's fault than the sub's. Depending on the sub
>of course.

Exactly. Whenever the volume is too high, the higher frequencies from
the sub are more audible and the subwoofer becomes directional.

The biggest problem I've seen (heard) with sub/sat combos is the volume
level of the subwoofer. Most people crank them up WAY too high because
they want to rattle the neighbours dishes.

Almost any sub should be non-directional when properly tuned and
balanced with the other speakers. A calibration disc and a sound level
meter helps to tune all of the speakers properly. Once setup correctly,
a subwoofer blends into the system and "disappears".