Klipsch: RF-7 or RF-5?

[MrC1]

I'm looking at Klipsch RF-5s and RF-7s, with the 7s being 2x the price, but
2x the power. Anyone ever do a comparo on these two?

The media room is 20x25. Power isn't a problem, especially since these are
very efficient speakers.

[Bill]

MrC1 wrote:

>I'm looking at Klipsch RF-5s and RF-7s, with the 7s being 2x the price, but
>2x the power. Anyone ever do a comparo on these two?

I've only listened to them briefly, so I can only comment on expected
differences based on drivers and cabinets.

Since they have the same tweeters, most of the difference will be in the
midrange and bass extension. I'd hazard a guess that the RF-5 might be
smoother in the mids due to the smaller driver, and the RF-7 may have
deeper bass extension. I found this to be true of several lines of
speakers that have very similar models, but different bass drivers.

For instance, my Paradigm Studio 60's are very similar to the Studio
80's - the bass drivers in the 80's were slightly larger, but the bass
extension was only a few Hz lower and only ever so slightly stronger at
high volume levels. The difference in the midrange is what really caught
my attention and the main reason I chose them over the 80's. These
little 60's have plenty of bass extension...enough that a sub is not
really needed. The smoothness and clarity of the mids is what really
made them sound better to me.

>The media room is 20x25. Power isn't a problem, especially since these are
>very efficient speakers.

Just a nit-pick...the RF-7 doesn't have "2x the power" of the 5. The
higher power handling only allows a few decibels more of volume, nothing
to get excited about unless peak volume is your main concern. In which
case you would be shopping for a different type of speaker. :)

[MrC1]

Thanks for the input!

I don't have the specs in front of me,but I'm pretty certain the 7's have
bigger tweeters as well. Certainly the horns are bigger, which will make
some difference.

As far as power, I'd say they go pretty loud. The 7's are rated at 500W
RMS/1000W peak, while the 5's are exactly half that. Surely that's enough
for more than 2db difference.

What would you recommend for high volume? Man, these are the loudest things
I've found while maintaining quality (meaning aside from concert-type
loudspeakers). 500W RMS with 102db sensitivity makes for some serious
volume. In fact. they are said to reach THX certification levels with only
70W.

Your definition of loud must be outrageous!

"Bill" <bill@c.a> wrote in message news:3u6dnYTMD7WS_8XfRVn-3w@golden.net...
> MrC1 wrote:
>
> >I'm looking at Klipsch RF-5s and RF-7s, with the 7s being 2x the price,
but
> >2x the power. Anyone ever do a comparo on these two?
>
> I've only listened to them briefly, so I can only comment on expected
> differences based on drivers and cabinets.
>
> Since they have the same tweeters, most of the difference will be in the
> midrange and bass extension. I'd hazard a guess that the RF-5 might be
> smoother in the mids due to the smaller driver, and the RF-7 may have
> deeper bass extension. I found this to be true of several lines of
> speakers that have very similar models, but different bass drivers.
>
> For instance, my Paradigm Studio 60's are very similar to the Studio
> 80's - the bass drivers in the 80's were slightly larger, but the bass
> extension was only a few Hz lower and only ever so slightly stronger at
> high volume levels. The difference in the midrange is what really caught
> my attention and the main reason I chose them over the 80's. These
> little 60's have plenty of bass extension...enough that a sub is not
> really needed. The smoothness and clarity of the mids is what really
> made them sound better to me.
>
> >The media room is 20x25. Power isn't a problem, especially since these
are
> >very efficient speakers.
>
> Just a nit-pick...the RF-7 doesn't have "2x the power" of the 5. The
> higher power handling only allows a few decibels more of volume, nothing
> to get excited about unless peak volume is your main concern. In which
> case you would be shopping for a different type of speaker. :)

[Bob]

>
> As far as power, I'd say they go pretty loud. The 7's are rated at 500W
> RMS/1000W peak, while the 5's are exactly half that. Surely that's enough
> for more than 2db difference.
>

A power change of 2X results in about a 3dB difference (10log(P1/P2)). So,
if these two speakers have the same sensitivity then the one with higher
power-handling capability could get 3dB louder (on the peaks) without
burning up.

To a human's ear, 3dB aint a whole lot.

Bob

[Bill]

MrC1 wrote:

>I don't have the specs in front of me,but I'm pretty certain the 7's have
>bigger tweeters as well. Certainly the horns are bigger, which will make
>some difference.

Actually the horns are the same size, while the driver is bigger. But
most of that increase in size likely results in higher power handling,
although the overall speaker efficiency is 3dB higher too.

>As far as power, I'd say they go pretty loud. The 7's are rated at 500W
>RMS/1000W peak, while the 5's are exactly half that. Surely that's enough
>for more than 2db difference.

You're right - it's a 3dB difference to be exact, all other factors
being equal.

When talking about volume levels and speakers, the speaker responds on a
logarithmic scale. So to get twice the volume, a 10dB increase, you need
10x the power.

If the power input is doubled, then you get a 3dB increase, which is
noticeable, but far from dramatic and nowhere near twice the volume.

That's why power ratings are just marketing gimmicks. Anything in the
10-30+ watts range is fairly loud, usually more than enough for home
theater and music.

>What would you recommend for high volume? Man, these are the loudest things
>I've found while maintaining quality (meaning aside from concert-type
>loudspeakers). 500W RMS with 102db sensitivity makes for some serious
>volume. In fact. they are said to reach THX certification levels with only
>70W.
>
>Your definition of loud must be outrageous!

Actually it's the other way round - my definition relates to unnecessary
minimum requirements.

You don't need massive amps and speakers, even though the companies
making this stuff will try to insist that you do. They're out to make
money, and if you're willing to cough up the cash, they're happy
campers.

Most people are more than happy with a 50w receiver and any typical set
of speakers. THX certification and other specifications are just hype to
promote sales.

But don't tell any of the companies I said that. :)

So in the end, for these two speakers, the difference in power handling
and efficiency translates into a total of 6dB louder - barely worth the
time to ponder. If the sound quality is similar, does the price tag at
twice the cost really make the speaker worth it? Only you can decide
that one.

Now if there is a very noticeable improvement in sound quality, that's
another story.

[Bob]

>
> When talking about volume levels and speakers, the speaker responds on a
> logarithmic scale. So to get twice the volume, a 10dB increase, you need
> 10x the power.
>

I hate to be pedantic (really), but the speaker's response is not
logarithmic. It's the human ear/brain that has a logarithmic response (just
ask Al Bell).

Bob

[MrC1]

I agree with you on just about all of this. Nice points - and thanks for
the input!

The THX certification may be mostly hype, but it has SOME merit, since it
looks at noise levels at high volume.

I guess what I really need to do is simply compare how the speakers sound.
For a $500 savings on a pair, it will be tough not to side with the little
ones.

Thanks guys!



"Bill" <bill@c.a> wrote in message news:jY-dnaJZmcKHVsffRVn-vg@golden.net...
> MrC1 wrote:
>
> >I don't have the specs in front of me,but I'm pretty certain the 7's have
> >bigger tweeters as well. Certainly the horns are bigger, which will make
> >some difference.
>
> Actually the horns are the same size, while the driver is bigger. But
> most of that increase in size likely results in higher power handling,
> although the overall speaker efficiency is 3dB higher too.
>
> >As far as power, I'd say they go pretty loud. The 7's are rated at 500W
> >RMS/1000W peak, while the 5's are exactly half that. Surely that's
enough
> >for more than 2db difference.
>
> You're right - it's a 3dB difference to be exact, all other factors
> being equal.
>
> When talking about volume levels and speakers, the speaker responds on a
> logarithmic scale. So to get twice the volume, a 10dB increase, you need
> 10x the power.
>
> If the power input is doubled, then you get a 3dB increase, which is
> noticeable, but far from dramatic and nowhere near twice the volume.
>
> That's why power ratings are just marketing gimmicks. Anything in the
> 10-30+ watts range is fairly loud, usually more than enough for home
> theater and music.
>
> >What would you recommend for high volume? Man, these are the loudest
things
> >I've found while maintaining quality (meaning aside from concert-type
> >loudspeakers). 500W RMS with 102db sensitivity makes for some serious
> >volume. In fact. they are said to reach THX certification levels with
only
> >70W.
> >
> >Your definition of loud must be outrageous!
>
> Actually it's the other way round - my definition relates to unnecessary
> minimum requirements.
>
> You don't need massive amps and speakers, even though the companies
> making this stuff will try to insist that you do. They're out to make
> money, and if you're willing to cough up the cash, they're happy
> campers.
>
> Most people are more than happy with a 50w receiver and any typical set
> of speakers. THX certification and other specifications are just hype to
> promote sales.
>
> But don't tell any of the companies I said that. :)
>
> So in the end, for these two speakers, the difference in power handling
> and efficiency translates into a total of 6dB louder - barely worth the
> time to ponder. If the sound quality is similar, does the price tag at
> twice the cost really make the speaker worth it? Only you can decide
> that one.
>
> Now if there is a very noticeable improvement in sound quality, that's
> another story.

[Bill]

MrC1 wrote:

>I agree with you on just about all of this. Nice points - and thanks for
>the input!
>
>The THX certification may be mostly hype, but it has SOME merit, since it
>looks at noise levels at high volume.

What I don't like about THX certification is it's merely a licensing fee
to get the THX stamp on your product. There are dozens of products that
meet or exceed the THX requirements, but they don't have the THX stamp
on them because they didn't pay George Lucas for the "honour" of having
a stamp on their stuff. Hell, even speaker wire companies are paying to
get their cables THX certified...because THX is so ingrained into
peoples' memories. It's a marketing tool...nothing more.

There are many products that come close to meeting the THX specs, but
cost a lot less, and sound just as good. Don't let THX be your deciding
factor.

>I guess what I really need to do is simply compare how the speakers sound.
>For a $500 savings on a pair, it will be tough not to side with the little
>ones.

What you have to decide is if the sound is worth the extra $500 to you
or not. When I was auditioning speakers, the salesman was pushing the
next speaker up, but for $300, I didn't see or hear any appreciable
improvement. In fact, I liked the sound of the lower priced speakers
better. Sometimes the best is not always more expensive.

Give them both a listen and compare them side-by-side, then decide.